Cheap or frugal boyfriend?

[vanillacupcake]

So, before I dive into my dilemma, I will provide some backstory to paint a clearer picture. I have been dating my boyfriend for 2 ½ years now. We both just turned 28 last month. We both have jobs where we make about same salary (he’s a sales rep for an online school and I’m the office admin for a software company). I live on my own in a 1/1 apartment and he still lives at home with his parents. I do receive a bit of financial help from my parents since housing prices in South Florida aren’t what you’d consider cheap, but nonetheless, I pay more each month than my boyfriend does since he doesn’t have to worry about rent. I want to be completely independent, so I plan on looking for a weekend job in order to make that happen. You’re probably wondering why he hasn’t moved in with me yet, considering how long we’ve been together and how we’re pushing 30. I wish I had a better explanation than the one I have. He claims he intends to- But he’s in debt from having to pay off a root canal, his lease is about to be up on his car and needs to think about affording a new one, his other bills add up to be too much to afford moving in with me. He says he wants to strive for more and knows he needs to find a better job in order to make a life with me, but I think you’ve caught on by now reading this far that he talks the talk, but doesn’t really walk the walk. His excuses: The economy is going down the toilet/Obama has ruined the country/there’s no opportunities these days/it’s too difficult to find a decent job in South Florida if you aren’t bilingual/he doesn’t have a college education/And my favorite: The world is going to end soon anyway (he’s a conspiracy theorist and believes the end times are upon us). I’m worried that in another 2 ½ years from now, nothing will have changed and he will continue to justify his current situation. What bothers me most is that his job is seasonal. During the summer, he only worked 3 days a week. During that time, he could have been looking for opportunities to make additional income or using those 2 days off a week to go to job interviews. Instead, he spent them sitting around in his room watching movies and reading conspiracy books…

Besides the lack of ambition, there are numerous red flags that I have been ignoring and in denial about for far too long. Friends and family continuously point them out but I wanted unbiased opinions. It bothers me just using the word, but there are many reasons that have lead me to believe that he’s what you’d consider “cheap”. Because this will be very sporadic, I will compose a list to explain..

• Every weekend, it’s a requirement that we go to Costco (this is a “bulk” type grocery store if you’re unfamiliar – and we use my mom’s membership card) so he can get the cheapest deals on bread, yogurt, eggs, etc. It’s always a zoo on the weekends but I guess it’s worth it to save $5-$10. Then we’ll go to Publix and/or Walmart because they sell certain items at each store that are cheaper (for example, tuna packets are $1 at Walmart whereas at Publix, they might be 3 for $4) each. So, we basically spend a good portion of the day grocery shopping searching for the best deals on food to save a few dollars. To me, this makes no sense because it uses more gas to go to more places. I suggested one weekend that he buy twice the amount of food so we could skip going the next weekend, so we could actually do something. He claimed that it would be too costly to do that all at once. Oh, and when we go to Publix, you’ll never catch him buying anything that isn’t BOGO or 2 for $5..
• Unless it’s for an anniversary, he rarely will ever take me out. Maybe once every 6 months, if that. I’ve taken him out to eat countless times throughout our relationship. When I received my tax refund check last year, I even paid for a trip to Universal Studios/Disney for both of us. Anyway, for the few times he has taken me out, I knew ordering a glass of wine or appetizers was out of the question and I knew better than to order anything remotely pricy. I usually go with the cheapest item on the menu. But even so, when the check comes, he’ll make comments such as “And this is why I don’t like to go out to eat.” He thinks eating out it a waste of money and that money could be used on groceries. On average, every other Saturday night, my parents will take us out to dinner. He has no issues with this because he knows he doesn’t have to pay. He claims that he doesn’t have to take me out to dinner because “my parents do it enough already”. This past weekend, I was already in my PJ’S at 8:00 on a Saturday night. Randomly, he asked me if I’d like to go anywhere. For a moment, I thought he was suggesting taking me out on a date, but what he was actually meant was “Are there any stores you want to go to that we didn’t already go to earlier?”
• He groupons. If we ever do anything, it has to be a deal on groupon. In our first year, he brought me to an arcade because he found a deal on groupon. In our second year, he bought a groupon for an indoor trampoline park. Last week, he bought tickets for us to see Disney on Ice.. On groupon. Two weeks ago, I bought us tickets to see Cirque du Soleil and spent a great deal to ensure we got amazing seats (I knew his eyesight wasn’t the best and I wanted him to have a memorable first experience since it was his first Cirque show). Because he used groupon to get the cheapest option, we won’t find out where our seats are for the Disney on Ice show until the night before.
• He stays at my apartment during the weekends and sometimes a night or two during the week. He has no problem using things like my laundry detergent, toilet paper, olive oil to cook, sweetener to add to his coffee.. But the only time he’s ever offered to replenish anything, was when I suggested he should. He paid for my toilet paper one time about two months ago. When I asked him why he never offers, he replied “I didn’t know you wanted me to/you never ask me”.

There are many more issues that I could address here, but I will save that for another time since this has become long enough. I am not a gold digger. When I was in my late teens, I briefly dated a divorced man much older than me who began to spoil me/bought me gifts/had taken me out to fancy restaurants. But I quickly ended it when it became apparent that he had no intention of taking me seriously and the possibility of falling in love was not there. I clearly remember many people having told me “You should have waited it out until after Valentine’s Day!” (Since it was just around the corner and he could have showered me with gifts one last time). I have been in multiple relationships with people you’d consider as “boys” and not “men”- I treated them the majority of the time, I was the one who did the “spoiling” (I hate using that word but I can’t think of an alternate one), etc. Heck, I’ve even flown a guy down I was in a long distance relationship with to see me every month for 6 months straight. I’m beginning to realize I’ve accepted it thus far because It’s all I’ve really known throughout my adult dating life. I don’t know how to let a man be a “man” in a relationship and step up to the plate. I find myself feeling uncomfortable, like a “gold digger” even desiring these things because I have thoughts like “All you must care about is money” and “Stop being so superficial and high maintenance” when I think about this. I have a big heart, I’ve always been very generous and it brings me joy to do things for people I love. I’ve been this way since I was a little girl. And it’s not that I expect to receive as much as I give, but when the person I love doesn’t even want or THINK to reciprocate anywhere near as much as I have, it hurts. But I know he does love me and care about me. He has positive qualities, but at this point, I don’t think they outweigh the negative. I’m stuck between “Will he change? Should I give him more time? Are my expectations too high? Am I putting too much focus on the wrong things?” OR “Maybe he won’t change, could this be who he is? Have I given him enough time? Are my expectations not high enough? Am I not putting enough focus on the right things?”

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you for reading.

[solarion]

Wow that was quite a read. I'm not entirely sure where to begin, but I will try some quotes that stuck out at me.

I’m stuck between “Will he change?

No. He will not change or he will change too little and/or too slowly to please you.

Are my expectations too high?

The expectation game is toxic...lose it.

Are my expectations not high enough?

See above. ^

Am I putting too much focus on the wrong things?

Not necessarily, but you are focusing on different things than he is. This doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Maybe he won’t change, could this be who he is?

Bingo.

Money/finances, or more specifically how to allocate financial resources is the numero uno source of friction in most long term relationships. One of the primary reasons for this is because men and women have generally differing ideas about how to spend and how to save. You see coupon clipping and shopping for values as "cheap" or "frugal" and BF likely sees it as obtaining more for less. Essentially spending less for the things you were going to obtain anyway can be functionally the same as a pay raise. Also many women tend to see gifts as expressions of affection or thoughtfulness more so than men do.

Also 2.5 years isn't exactly an eternity, and giving up one's own security to move in with a significant other is an important decision. If he were to move in would he be added to your lease? If no, would you be willing to lose your apartment and shop for one with him so that you both can be on the lease? If not, why not? How will a move effect travel time to and from work for either or both of you?

His excuses: The economy is going down the toilet/Obama has ruined the country/there’s no opportunities these days/it’s too difficult to find a decent job in South Florida if you aren’t bilingual/he doesn’t have a college education/And my favorite: The world is going to end soon anyway (he’s a conspiracy theorist and believes the end times are upon us).

BF is not wrong. While I disagree that it has much of anything to do with puppet Barry Soetoro(aka Barack H Obama), I've little doubt at all that your BF is correct about the economic state of not just the US, but the global economy. Actually the economy melted down in 2008 and has been in slow collapse since that time. Americans are a horribly isolated lot, so most remain blissfully unaware of what transpires in the rest of the world, but a global economic meltdown more severe than the great depression is underway at this time. This is particularly apparent in Japan, China, and South America, but will soon be even more obvious here in the US.

You've spent roughly 30 months of your life with this guy and obviously know him far better than I. If you think he's wrong about everything, wasting his time worrying about "conspiracy theory"(which are often provable facts about people that conspire), and making excuses to keep you at a distance. If you cannot even entertain the possibility that he's more attune to changes in the economy and looming danger then I suggest you dump him.

[dontaskme]

I for one, having a spendthrift BF can definitely appreciate a little bit of frugality, but one thing I cannot stand is a cheapskate. I refused to waste any of my time, especially my weekend shopping to save a few dollars. To me, time wasted is money wasted. Time = money. If you can't stand his money habits now that you are living separately, how much more can you take once living together? Would you need him to sign a contract to agree that he has to pay half of the expenses?

I don't really believe that men and women are that different on how they view finances. I have met men and women who were equally cheapskates and in as much as I enjoy their company, I really do not like doing stuff with them that involves shelling out money because they will somehow/someway, always try to take a "free" ride.

Have the conversation with him and if you think this is a deal breaker for you, lose the guy. Life is too short, and I hate not spending money sensibly because I am too worried counting pennies.

[smarta$$]

This sounds like a recipe for misery. I do not think your expectations are out of line at all... it is RIGHT to expect that a man who loves you will want to be as generous of spirit to YOU as you are to him.

And the conspiracy theories combined with his unwillingness to accept adult responsibility for his own existence will eventually make you lose respect for him.

My crystal ball sees no future here for you.

[basilandthyme]

Have you thought about him in context of fatherhood? You're 28, so if you want kids, you'll probably be planning it within the next 5-7 years. Do you really think this guy has "great father, loving husband, role model" qualities? Because I don't see them.

You could do so much better