deceitful woman.. how would you deal with it?

[mcr]

Honestly, I shouldn't even be asking for advice on this.. I should just cut things off and be done with it, but we're living together now so there is a bit of complication to come along with that.

Anyway, the long term girlfriend has become deceitful over the past few months. She has a busy job and does work a lot of late nights/long hours.

However.... Under the guise of work, she's been out all night drinking on numerous occasions. She won't tell me that after work she's going out - it's all simply classed as 'work'. I've told her my thoughts about that, and to at least let me know if work is changing into "a few drinks with everyone from work" - but that took several times and still hasn't really sunk in to her thought process yet. I will sometimes get a text message saying, "won't be home tonight". Recently those texts have changed to "are you around/awake" - then it seems that if I don't answer, she feels free to head out for "a few drinks" (if I answer, she comes home).

In addition to the above, her 'late night work', has also included going out to various events/movies/etc (she's occasionally dropped ticket stubs (always two of them) beside the garbage instead of disposing of them elsewhere) - and many of these events are things that I've suggested her and I do together (but she's "working late"). I haven't confronted her about these outings yet as I'm sure she'll have some "legitimate" reason for them that she'll defend herself with.

I suppose this is a bit of a rant for a first time post, and honestly, I'd just normally walk away and be done with this behavior. Her constant "I love you" and that fact that we live together has me slightly - and I do mean slightly - hesitant to just bail on what is (at least used to be) a good relationship.

Thoughts? What would you do? Should I confront her about her ticket stubs and see what excuse comes up?

As an fyi, I've been cheated on a few times in the past... to me, this stuff that's going on is a huge red flag - no matter what her answers are - how could I suggest that she rebuilds the damaged trust in her? Or am I wrong in saying the trust is damaged?

[sexprobz]

I think the constant "i love yous" might be a cover up for some guilt happening there. Even though you are right to call all of these things huge red flags you technically don't have any definitive proof. Does she spend a lot of time with you at all? Or does all her free time go to hanging with coworkers after dark? Also she should be able to send a simple text message if she really cares about you.

[mcr]

I think the constant "i love yous" might be a cover up for some guilt happening there. Even though you are right to call all of these things huge red flags you technically don't have any definitive proof. Does she spend a lot of time with you at all? Or does all her free time go to hanging with coworkers after dark? Also she should be able to send a simple text message if she really cares about you.

We used to spend a lot of time together.. then her role at work changed and she legitimately has longer hours and sometimes late nights with that - so I gave her space to let her do those longer hours (and weekends) at work. But, the last few months it's always an excuse of 'working late' - but then sometimes comes home with alcohol on her breath - last couple of times she's vigorously brushed her teeth/used mouthwash, and I don't smell it until next morning - and then the event/movie tickets - as mentioned, always a pair of them - sometimes she even managed to leave her normal work hours early to attend these things (with "whomever it is) when I had asked her to go with me.

on the subject of her texting me - "phone died", or "left phone in the car, sorry".

I'd agree - no proof - of cheating anyway - but she's clearly being deceitful about something and I'd like to find a way to confront her about it - although I did the first few times she'd go out drinking - she just agreed to let me know - just has never really happened - she's just tried to cover it up better.

[melancholia]

We used to spend a lot of time together.. then her role at work changed and she legitimately has longer hours and sometimes late nights with that - so I gave her space to let her do those longer hours (and weekends) at work. But, the last few months it's always an excuse of 'working late' - but then sometimes comes home with alcohol on her breath - last couple of times she's vigorously brushed her teeth/used mouthwash, and I don't smell it until next morning - and then the event/movie tickets - as mentioned, always a pair of them - sometimes she even managed to leave her normal work hours early to attend these things (with "whomever it is) when I had asked her to go with me.

Quick question about your GF's job. Does she work at a restaurant/bar?? I want to wait for your response to that before I comment further on that detail.

on the subject of her texting me - "phone died", or "left phone in the car, sorry".

Probably her go-to response to get you to drop the subject.

I'd agree - no proof - of cheating anyway - but she's clearly being deceitful about something and I'd like to find a way to confront her about it - although I did the first few times she'd go out drinking - she just agreed to let me know - just has never really happened - she's just tried to cover it up better.

This is the most important and telling point of your entire post. It honestly doesn't matter if she's cheating or not. The fact of the matter here is that you are not getting what you need from your girlfriend, and your trust in her has been compromised. And your expectations are not unreasonable either. You are simply asking for better, direct communication of where she is and when/if she will be home. I think you need to sit down with her, at a neutral time when both of you are relaxed, and without judgment and in a non-confrontational tone, you need to address your feelings. Use "I feel" statements and talk to her about how her actions are making you feel. Tell her that it's making you feel like you can't trust her, and that you feel disrespected when she goes out all night without any regard for your time, and your concern for her whereabouts and well being.

How long have you been living together? The thing about moving in with a partner, is that no matter how long you've been together, or how well you think you know each other, the dynamics of the relationship will always change once you move in together. You will learn things about each other that you didn't before - some things you will love, some things you will resent. The most important thing you can do is try and keep the lines of communication open. Maybe she's never felt the need to communicate these things in a relationship, so it's unnatural for her. Try and exercise a little more patience, and definitely try talking to her about how all of this is making you feel. Hopefully she will understand and can start paying more attention to your needs, and the needs of your relationship.

Best of luck to you. Big Love,
Melancholia

[mcr]

Quick question about your GF's job. Does she work at a restaurant/bar?? I want to wait for your response to that before I comment further on that detail.

No different industry all together (construction) - as mentioned, she has legitimate days she needs to work late - and even late nights (not shift work though). But her only description is "working late" (or similar) - then I find out she was out drinking, movies and at other events - leaving work early despite not being able to leave work early for any events I try to plan - this isn't all the time when she's "working late" - but definitely some of the time - and seems to be getting more frequent (and as mentioned - has has carelessly left two ticket stubs by the trash on a few occasions now - hurtfully on nights I had planned dinners/dates and she said she couldn't because of 'working late'.

I think you need to sit down with her, at a neutral time when both of you are relaxed, and without judgment and in a non-confrontational tone, you need to address your feelings.

Problem is, I already did this - twice now. First I accepted the fact she "isn't used to this" and simply stated that think about it in reverse - that she'd no doubt be a bit worried if I said I was working, but then didn't show up at home - or to wake in the middle of the night and expect me there,but not - and no answer on the phone or no update to say be home at a certain time. Second time, I expressed more concern over this, but still in a manner like you describe - I said it's damaging the trust and when you keep doing this it's not making it better. I feel now like there is no trust left.

Use "I feel" statements and talk to her about how her actions are making you feel. Tell her that it's making you feel like you can't trust her, and that you feel disrespected when she goes out all night without any regard for your time, and your concern for her whereabouts and well being.

[melancholia]

No different industry all together (construction) - as mentioned, she has legitimate days she needs to work late - and even late nights (not shift work though). But her only description is "working late" (or similar) - then I find out she was out drinking, movies and at other events - leaving work early despite not being able to leave work early for any events I try to plan - this isn't all the time when she's "working late" - but definitely some of the time - and seems to be getting more frequent (and as mentioned - has has carelessly left two ticket stubs by the trash on a few occasions now - hurtfully on nights I had planned dinners/dates and she said she couldn't because of 'working late'.

I was not expecting you to say she has a job in construction. If you had said she works at a restaurant or bar, it makes sense she would be out late drinking, because that is a huge part of the restaurant/bar atmosphere. However, her excuse of working late, is not even excuse, it's a bold face lie at this point. I'm beginning to wonder if she may have a drinking problem. Have you noticed her drinking more, or being more irresponsible when she is drinking? Or have you only noticed she lies to you about working late, then shows up at inconsistent hours of the day/night, after a bought of boozing?

Problem is, I already did this - twice now. First I accepted the fact she "isn't used to this" and simply stated that think about it in reverse - that she'd no doubt be a bit worried if I said I was working, but then didn't show up at home - or to wake in the middle of the night and expect me there,but not - and no answer on the phone or no update to say be home at a certain time. Second time, I expressed more concern over this, but still in a manner like you describe - I said it's damaging the trust and when you keep doing this it's not making it better. I feel now like there is no trust left.

I really hate to say this, then, but it seems you've come to an impasse. Either you need to issue your GF an ultimatum and tell her you will break up with her if her behavior doesn't change, or just break up with her now and begin the process of healing and moving on as soon as you can. I know how difficult it can be to break up with someone - especially when you live together. Trust me, I lived with a partner for 4.5 years. He also worked in construction and would go out late to drink with friends, but it in no way had anything to do with his job. We had an extremely tumultuous and unhealthy/codependent relationship right up until I couldn't handle it anymore and left him over 2 years ago. It was literally the most difficult thing I've ever had to do. I loved him with everything I had, and part of me still loves him and always will, but I knew that he did not have the capacity to give me what I needed from a relationship, and I had to take matters into my own hands and leave the relationship. I think you've exhausted your only options at this point, you've tried talking to her about it, I am sure you two have fought over it, and you don't seem to be getting anywhere. Either you compromise completely and just let her do whatever she pleases, while it hurts you and your relationship, or you take some more drastic steps and tell her how serious you are about this. Clearly you are deeply effected by her behavior or you wouldn't be seeking advice on a forum. If she refuses to acknowledge your feelings,and your needs, then she is not the right partner for you.

[TheEvilJester]

In my personal opinion, here's the thing....

If/when she is legitimately working late, then obviously there is and should be no problem there. She should still give you an approximate estimate of when she expects to be home, but even then it is understandable if she can't say exactly.

However, to tell you she is "working late" and then it turns out she was out drinking, at the movies, partying, etc. ... That is a blatant lie. I don't even care if she is doing those things WITH WORK COLLEAGUES. That is still NOT "working late." That is going out with the gang after work. ....And you know something? Even that is okay...... as long as she's honest about it. If she wants to hang out with work friends outside of work now and then, that should be fine, but she should just tell you that is what is happening.

To claim she is "working late" only to turn out she was out drinking, out at the movies, etc. makes it seem like she is hiding something. Otherwise, why wouldn't she just be honest? Is she aware of your history with a few different cheating exes? If so, that honestly makes her actions even less forgivable in my eyes. How could she not see how this would worry you EVEN if you didn't have a history of that, so considering you HAVE had experience with cheating exes, how could she not realize how this would make you feel?

This isn't about you being controlling either. Your expectations are NOT controlling or unreasonable. If you simply didn't like the idea of her going out with work friends at all, that might be controlling. I get the impression, though, that you don't mind her going out with work friends. It is her lying about it that bothers you.

Melancholia's earlier advice basically mirrors the advice I would have given to you exactly. However, much like melancholia, your further update changes my mind. At this point, not only have you had the civil and calm discussion with her.... you've had it TWICE and still nothing has changed. If I were you, I would feel as though that tells me she does not give a crap about my feelings at all. Can I ask, how did she respond/react to the past two discussions? Does she act all defensive and offended like she is doing nothing wrong and YOU are the one with the problem? Or does she pretend as though she understands and wants to make you happy, only to turn around and do the same things again anyway?

Really, what you do is going to have to be your decision. If you really truly do not want to break up with her, then that is up to you. In that case, you need to make it clear to her that the behavior needs to change or you will leave (and you need to stick to it). Bottom line, though, I have to be honest in that I don't even think she deserves an "ultimatum" at this point. You've given her two second chances already, and she's blown it both times. She doesn't deserve another chance if you ask me. Frankly, I rarely think an "ultimatum" is a good idea. To me, if you actually get to the point of an ultimatum, it is better just to end it. After all, even if you get what you want, there is still the residual frustration that you basically had to force the person into it.

Again, will have to be your decision, but my personal advice would be to end it. You've given her more than her fair share of chances and all for naught. You deserve better than that. If she cannot be the better you deserve, then some other woman will be.

[Anonymous guy]

Your gut instinct is probably correct.

[Wakeup]

Time to hire a private investigator and see what she's actually dong and with whom when she says she's working or the even more sketchy "wont be home tonight."

Your gut is telling you something but you're too scared of the truth to find it out (to the point that you didn't immediately ask her about the tickets and instead came here to ask us if you should ask her) so I suggest you either get the solid proof you need to get the strength and personal boundaries to leave OR: You just continue to bury your head in the sand and let her be deceitful and lying to you and carry on until she breaks up with you or stops whatever the hell she's actually doing.
(which is more then likely having an affair with one of her fellow constructions buddies.)

Sorry... hope for your sake I'm wrong.

[lightstar]

I have been with my partner for years and if he started acting this way, I would not hesitate to kick him out. The fact we have been together a long time, living together, have a kid together etc doesn't make a difference if I can no longer trust him. He knows that lying or cheating is a deal breaker for me. He has known that from the start.

you say normally this would be a deal breaker for you too but you are hesitant now because you live together.. Why? that should not change your boundaries or expectations

- - - Updated - - -

it should make your need for commitment, security and trust stronger

[TheEvilJester]

Exactly. Living together should mean that you two feel even more connected and committed to each other, and trust each other even more. Otherwise, why would you live with somebody you don't feel you can trust?

Heck, that is one of the good reasons to live together with somebody prior to getting engaged/married. As far as it seems to me, this has served its purpose to you. By moving in together, it seems you learned that she is NOT marriage material. Agian, perhaps I am over-reacting, but that is at least the guy reaction I have.

Yes, it might be a bit difficult figuring out how to end the living together situation (who keeps the current place, if you have a lease to break, etc.). But, honestly, I think it is worth it for you to figure all that stuff out. Will have to be your decision, but it is sounding to me like you would be better off without her.

Good luck to you either way.

[tarapaine]

OP, I think this really all depends on the nature of your relationship with your gf. If you tell me more about that I could give you better advice.

I think you have every right to be worried, as this all sounds very suspicious, especially TWO movie ticket stubs (wtf?), but only IF there have been any problems. I might even say there's a good chance she has already cheated on you.

If however, everything else has been mostly fine until this, then I fear it's more likely that the problem is more on your end. Going out with friends after work is pretty normal, and your gf could just want some "space". That doesn't mean she's looking to cheat on you, wanting some space is normal in a relationship. Do not let your insecurities drive her away.

But of course only you know the nature of this relationship.