I really like this girl... but she has a boyfriend!

[aya91]

I'm aware that this is a rather unethical matter. If she's unhappy with her boyfriend anyway, I wouldn't mind stepping in. But if she's in a happy relationship, I'd prefer to just stay out of it and let them be. I'm also aware that all outcomes are quite bad: She either doesn't break up with her boyfriend, or if she does, she'll be the kind of girl who leaves you for another guy.

I'm 25, she's 20. We study together (same university, same major, different year), share a lot of interests and during the past weeks we have been spending more and more time together. A few days ago she invited me to her place, her other friends canceled so it ended up being just the two of us. We cooked / talked / laughed / played video games until 6am, and it was honestly the best night I've spent in many years, even though nothing romantic happened. Yesterday we spent most of the day together at school, she messaged me instantly when I got home, today she asked if I want to come to her place again one of these days. Some more things:

- She asks a lot of personal questions and seems to be generally very interested in what I do.
- She mentioned having a boyfriend only when I specifically asked, and I told her he's a lucky guy, just so she really knows I like her.
- We talk every day (Facebook).
- She seems to strictly avoid getting physically too close.
- She's very observant and remembers every single thing I tell her, so I assume that has figured out that I really like her.
- She gets nervous around me, smiles a lot, laughs a lot, talks a lot.

My conclusion: She likes me, doesn't know what to make of it, so she currently keeps me in her life as a friend, ignoring the obstacles.

Is there a chance she doesn't have any romantic feelings and just sees me as a friend? Am I misinterpreting her behaviour? What can I do to understand better how she feels? I'm afraid that it's too early to talk about feelings and that it would make things very awkward. I also feel like if she's really interested the next step should come from her (either take the initiative and break up with her boyfriend on her own, or tell me that she's not interested after all).

I really, really like her, I think she likes me, I don't know what to do and I don't want to make her a cheater.

[TheEvilJester]

Here's the thing....

Yes, it is certainly entirely possible that she see's you only as a friend. No two people, man or woman, are exactly alike, but in general women do tend to be capable of being more open with friends. So what us guys interpret as a gal liking us could just be them really liking us... AS A FRIEND.

That said.... YES, it is also entirely possible that your assessment is correct. That at least some part of her likes you as more than a friend.... but she has a boyfriend, so she doesn't really know what to do with those feelings.

The thing is, no matter which is the case, it doesn't really change what I would personally think should be your course of action. Which is that, right now she has a boyfriend.... so you should treat her as though she only sees you as a friend and nothing more. If you can be okay with remaining just her friend, then feel free to do so. You never know what may happen. She could eventually leave her boyfriend and would maybe have interest in you when she's available. On the other hand, she could eventually leave her boyfriend... but still only see you as a friend.

What I would definitely NOT suggest you do is to take any action to try to convince her to leave her boyfriend for you. You pretty much stated my opinion on that exactly yourself. Even if you DID wind up getting her, you've only succeeded in proving she's the type of person who will ditch her boyfriend for somebody exciting and new. How long until she'd do the same to you? Though, the more likely result is that you'd lose her as a friend as well, and possibly even cause a lot of unneeded drama for her.

Now, if you don't feel like you can be around her as a friend without it just hurting too much that you can't have more... then I'd suggest it is better for you to keep your distance. She's got a boyfriend. Are they deliriously blissfully happy and bound to get married any day? Are they miserable and at each other's throats and bound for a break-up any day? You don't know, and it isn't any of your business. IF she becomes single, THEN you could maybe considering giving it a shot. Until then, you should leave her alone.

Believe me, I'm not trying to vilify you here. I definitely understand how you feel. You can't help who you fall for sometimes. I think most of us could understand your situation. So, I do not mean to make you feel bad. I think the very fact that you stopped to think about this, even so far as to come here for advice, shows that you don't want to do the wrong thing. It shows that you care enough to ponder what is right and wrong. So, don't lose sight of that and do something that might make you feel better in the short term, but could make others go through a lot of unneeded pain and drama.... and could even wind up much worse off for you.

Good luck to you either way. If you hit it off so well with this gal as a friend, some day you WILL be able to hit it off with somebody as more than a friend. Maybe that could be her down the road, maybe it will be somebody else.... but don't try to force something when you know it really isn't the right situation.

[melancholia]

You are absolutely misinterpreting her behavior, but almost every guy does that, so it's normal. However, you need to change the way you are thinking about this. Men tend to have a very difficult time differentiating between a female's friendly demeanor and a female's expression of romantic interest. All of the behavior you've listed tell me she sees you only as a friend and nothing else. Let me break it down for you here:

She didn't leave out information about her BF because she didn't want you to know, she probably didn't think it mattered before you asked. Had she lied and said she didn't have a BF when you asked, that would be different.
Being interested in what someone is talking about or what they are interested in is not necessarily a sign of romantic interest, it's more often than not an expression of platonic interest.
Strictly avoiding physical contact with you is a HUGE sign that she is not into you at all. She is not hiding her feelings or uncertain about them, she is not interested in you romantically or sexually. End of story.
Being passive aggressive and saying her boyfriend is lucky is not a clear sign that you are interested in her. All it does is show that you think she's cool and that her boyfriend is lucky to be with her.

You are making a huge mistake by misinterpreting her actions as romantic or sexual interest. She has not given you one clear sign at all that she is interested in dating you. A lot of women are nice and they like to make friends with lots of different people, including men. Just because she might get nervous about something when you are talking, or she remembers things you tell her, does not mean she wants to date you. It just means she likes you in general and wants to be friends. If you can't handle that, then don't be her friend. If you want to be friends with her, then abandon the idea of getting romantically involved with her and just be her friend. Those are your two options.

[Hooo!]

What do you want?

[aya91]

What I would definitely NOT suggest you do is to take any action to try to convince her to leave her boyfriend for you. You pretty much stated my opinion on that exactly yourself. Even if you DID wind up getting her, you've only succeeded in proving she's the type of person who will ditch her boyfriend for somebody exciting and new. How long until she'd do the same to you? Though, the more likely result is that you'd lose her as a friend as well, and possibly even cause a lot of unneeded drama for her.
Believe me, I'm not trying to vilify you here. I definitely understand how you feel. You can't help who you fall for sometimes. I think most of us could understand your situation. So, I do not mean to make you feel bad. I think the very fact that you stopped to think about this, even so far as to come here for advice, shows that you don't want to do the wrong thing. It shows that you care enough to ponder what is right and wrong. So, don't lose sight of that and do something that might make you feel better in the short term, but could make others go through a lot of unneeded pain and drama.... and could even wind up much worse off for you.

Good luck to you either way. If you hit it off so well with this gal as a friend, some day you WILL be able to hit it off with somebody as more than a friend. Maybe that could be her down the road, maybe it will be somebody else.... but don't try to force something when you know it really isn't the right situation.

The thing is, when you fall for someone, during that period of time you don't want to hit it off with somebody. You want that specific person, whether it's right or wrong, and if that person reciprocates those feelings, things get quite complicated. :/

You are absolutely misinterpreting her behavior, but almost every guy does that, so it's normal. However, you need to change the way you are thinking about this. Men tend to have a very difficult time differentiating between a female's friendly demeanor and a female's expression of romantic interest. All of the behavior you've listed tell me she sees you only as a friend and nothing else. Let me break it down for you here:

She didn't leave out information about her BF because she didn't want you to know, she probably didn't think it mattered before you asked. Had she lied and said she didn't have a BF when you asked, that would be different.
Being interested in what someone is talking about or what they are interested in is not necessarily a sign of romantic interest, it's more often than not an expression of platonic interest.
Strictly avoiding physical contact with you is a HUGE sign that she is not into you at all. She is not hiding her feelings or uncertain about them, she is not interested in you romantically or sexually. End of story.
Being passive aggressive and saying her boyfriend is lucky is not a clear sign that you are interested in her. All it does is show that you think she's cool and that her boyfriend is lucky to be with her.

You are making a huge mistake by misinterpreting her actions as romantic or sexual interest. She has not given you one clear sign at all that she is interested in dating you. A lot of women are nice and they like to make friends with lots of different people, including men. Just because she might get nervous about something when you are talking, or she remembers things you tell her, does not mean she wants to date you. It just means she likes you in general and wants to be friends. If you can't handle that, then don't be her friend. If you want to be friends with her, then abandon the idea of getting romantically involved with her and just be her friend. Those are your two options.

I might have been misreading signs, it is indeed a common thing men do. During past experiences I've always been right when I thought someone was into me though.

The main reason why I thought that she likes me is that she spent way too much time with me, essentially any moment she could, and we saw each other more often than she saw her boyfriend.

Yesterday she let herself fall into my arms and we cuddled for 5 hours, in a way "friends" really don't do. I really am infatuated and didn't stop her, even though I should have. I guess that answers my question for sure, and at this point she really needs to make a decision before going any step further (we're kind of over the line already, to be honest). I'm not going to tell her to break up with her boyfriend. If she truly is unhappy with him and happier with me, she will do that on her own, if she's happy with him I don't want to be with her anyway and I will just leave her alone. But yes, now I'm 110% sure she's into me.

[TheEvilJester]

The thing is, when you fall for someone, during that period of time you don't want to hit it off with somebody. You want that specific person, whether it's right or wrong, and if that person reciprocates those feelings, things get quite complicated. :/

Oh yeah, believe me, I definitely understand that. I am sure almost everybody has had some kind of experience like that. It may not be EXACTLY this situation, but I think almost everybody has had some kind of situation like that where they like somebody they can't/shouldn't but can't help how they feel.

The thing is, that doesn't mean you should just give in and go for it. I mean, for example, I think most of us would love a million dollars.... but we don't go rob a bank to get it. Instead, we accept we will probably never see that much money in our lives and we learn to be happy with what we have. Heck, for most people, even if you could tell them they could somehow steal a million dollars and they'd get away completely free... most people would never do it because it is still wrong.

That is an extreme example, sure, but I hope you get my point. My point being that, yes you are right that you can't help sometimes what/who you want.... but you CAN help how you deal with it. If she were single and available, that's an easy one. Ask her out and hope for the best. But, she's in a relationship. As far as you know, she could be insanely happy in that relationship. Even if she's not, though, it's not your place to try to convince her to end it. Not in any way. The only exceptions I could see is if you could see she was very unhappy in the relationship, or if she were being abused in the relationship, then it is okay to talk to her AS A FRIEND and try to convince her to do what is right for her. If that were the case, you could always try asking her out after she's had some time to move on, but you shouldn't approach it as though you want to try to get her to leave him for you.

Now, you don't really know enough about their relationship to know that. So, again, as far as you know they could be insanely happy together. Even if they aren't, it isn't your place to decide that. That is her decision. So, no amount of rationalizing makes it okay to mess around with somebody's relationship. She's presently not available. So, you should consider her a friend and nothing more.... unless she becomes available of her own accord. Then, you can maybe consider giving it a shot.

As for your recent interaction.... I still wouldn't necessarily say that is a definite yes, that she definitely has feelings for you as well. I mean, I do agree with you that two heterosexual friends of opposite genders do not usually (and probably should not) cuddle like that. Gals may sometimes do that with their "girlfriends," but to do so with a guy while she has a boyfriend isn't really appropriate. So, even I have to admit that I'm now sort of thinking maybe she does have some feelings for you.....

BUT, that still doesn't change my answer. Whether she does or not, she's in a relationship. So, even if she DOES, it would be wrong to try to encourage or even strengthen that. Let her deal with her relationship however she sees fit. If it turns out she DOES have feelings for you as well, it would be much more likely to work out well for you if you let her deal with that on her own. In other words, if she winds up leaving her boyfriend of her own volition, THEN you ask her out or even she asks you.... you stand a much better chance of that working out. Otherwise, there are just so many ways it can go bad/reflect poorly on you or her or both. Just as one example, if you tried to get her to leave him for you and succeed..... she may later feel bad about leaving a current boyfriend for somebody else like that.... and may associate you with that feeling and it could later ruin things. Whereas, if she leaves him of her own decision and later you two happen to get together, she thinks of you as this great new boyfriend, not as the guy who made her leave her former boyfriend.

I know sometimes it can be hard. You can't help who you fall for. But, when you know it isn't right, it is best to do the right thing and hopefully in time it will become a possibility. If not, though, the other gift time will give you is you will eventually find somebody else instead. I know it doesn't feel that way right now, but it time it would.

[aya91]

That is an extreme example, sure, but I hope you get my point. My point being that, yes you are right that you can't help sometimes what/who you want.... but you CAN help how you deal with it. If she were single and available, that's an easy one. Ask her out and hope for the best. But, she's in a relationship. As far as you know, she could be insanely happy in that relationship. Even if she's not, though, it's not your place to try to convince her to end it. Not in any way. The only exceptions I could see is if you could see she was very unhappy in the relationship, or if she were being abused in the relationship, then it is okay to talk to her AS A FRIEND and try to convince her to do what is right for her. If that were the case, you could always try asking her out after she's had some time to move on, but you shouldn't approach it as though you want to try to get her to leave him for you.

As for your recent interaction.... I still wouldn't necessarily say that is a definite yes, that she definitely has feelings for you as well. I mean, I do agree with you that two heterosexual friends of opposite genders do not usually (and probably should not) cuddle like that. Gals may sometimes do that with their "girlfriends," but to do so with a guy while she has a boyfriend isn't really appropriate. So, even I have to admit that I'm now sort of thinking maybe she does have some feelings for you.....

BUT, that still doesn't change my answer. Whether she does or not, she's in a relationship. So, even if she DOES, it would be wrong to try to encourage or even strengthen that. Let her deal with her relationship however she sees fit. If it turns out she DOES have feelings for you as well, it would be much more likely to work out well for you if you let her deal with that on her own. In other words, if she winds up leaving her boyfriend of her own volition, THEN you ask her out or even she asks you.... you stand a much better chance of that working out. Otherwise, there are just so many ways it can go bad/reflect poorly on you or her or both. Just as one example, if you tried to get her to leave him for you and succeed..... she may later feel bad about leaving a current boyfriend for somebody else like that.... and may associate you with that feeling and it could later ruin things. Whereas, if she leaves him of her own decision and later you two happen to get together, she thinks of you as this great new boyfriend, not as the guy who made her leave her former boyfriend.

We talked about it, and she does indeed have feelings for me... a lot. She also said she isn't completely happy in her current relationship, but also not completely sure about leaving it, because it would represent a big change in her life.

And that makes the situation a lot more complex for both of us, and a lot harder for me to just ignore those feelings and look somewhere else. I don't want to push her into making a certain kind of decision, I want her to do whatever makes her happier.
But we both don't know how to approach this.

[MartinOhm]

aya91, are you sure she is not happy with her current boyfriend? I say it is a big no no to go after someone with already a bf, but it seems you have talked about it too and she does share the feeling back. Not sure what to suggest you since you guys have already talked. I would had told you to suggest her to be close friends for now. But honestly do not expect much.

[TheEvilJester]

Okay, I think given the new information that changes my personal thought on the right approach just a tiny bit. That tiny bit is I think I'd suggest you do wait for her at least for a little bit. There SHOULD be a time limit on that, though. Where, if nothing changes, you decide you can't put your life on hold any longer, so then you proceed to just move on.

The only reason now I would suggest waiting even though that is somewhat contrary to my prior advice is because now you know from her own mouth that she has feelings for you as well. So, I think it could be worth taking a chance to see if perhaps things work out for you.

Where my opinion STILL has not changed, though, is that you still should not be an active participant in trying to convince her toward any decision. I think, for now, your best best is still to step back and respectfully let her make her own decision and deal with her relationship in whatever way makes sense to her.

Maybe something like "I really like you, but I wouldn't feel right getting in the middle of your relationship. Right now, though, it's not like I am going anywhere. I want you to be happy. If you decide that is with him, then so be it. If you decide that isn't with him, then I want to give you the time to deal with that. After that, if you still feel the same way about us, we can talk then." Again, maybe that is just me, but I think it is better not to try to have any direct involvement in causing her relationship to end.

Not only that, but sometimes, even if they don't MEAN to do it, people may think they see something in another person when their current relationship is not going so well. If she left him for you, it could be possible that you weren't quite the right match for her after all, but you just seemed exciting and new because of what she was going through in her relationship. Rather, if she ends her relationship and, goes through all the drama and healing that takes place after that..... and still at that point decides she likes you, then you stand a better chance of that working out.

You don't deserve to be somebody's "rebound" basically. Am I saying that is what is happening here? No, I can't know that for sure. I am just saying it COULD be. Now she knows how you feel, and you know she feels the same. If this is meant to be, it will still be "meant to be" when she's dealt with her relationship. Good luck to you!

[Hooo!]

sometimes a girl wants to be taken away
sometimes a girl wants the man to lead.

[aya91]

We have talked about it a lot, she wants to leave her current relationship, but I wonder if she will have the courage to take the necessary steps, as it will be a painful process. I'm not pushing her to do so, or suggesting to break up, I just try to talk to her and help her figure out what she wants. I believe she should take all the time she needs to do so.

She felt like she has changed during the past year, and that her current relationship isn't mature or satisfying enough, and that it has become shallow and distant. Meeting me was the trigger that made her realise so, apparently. With me she said to be happier (she keeps track of her mood every day), more motivated and overall less anxious.

I hope she will take that step, but I won't tell her to do so... I'll just be there for her during the process.

[TheEvilJester]

I think that's the right course of action. I mean, others may disagree, I don't know. But, I just don't think it is ever right to be an active participant in getting somebody to break up. Again, with the possible exception of maybe if they are in an abusive relationship and you are doing it for their own good. That doesn't sound like the case here, she's just maybe no longer happy in her relationship. So, for that, she should deal with that on her own and decide what she wants.

It definitely IS good to prove to be a man who can lead.... but I think there are times when a good leader also needs to know when to step back and let people lead themselves. I think this would be one of those examples. Again, maybe this is just me, I don't know.... but I wouldn't think that is the right kind of situation to show your alpha male side and try to win the girl over. To me, that is the kind of situation to show you are also a gentleman capable of doing the right thing, even if it unfortunately could mean missing out on something you wanted.

Good luck to you. I hope it goes well.

[Hooo!]

but I wouldn't think that is the right kind of situation to show your alpha male side and try to win the girl over. To me, that is the kind of situation to show you are also a gentleman capable of doing the right thing, even if it unfortunately could mean missing out on something you wanted.

do BOTH at the same time.

[TheEvilJester]

do BOTH at the same time.

Well, perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean.

For me personally, I just don't think it is really ever right to be interjecting yourself into somebody else's relationship. Even in this case where he knows she's not happy in it right now, that's really not his place to do anything about that. Maybe her and her current fella could talk things out and get to a point where they are okay. Maybe the can't and they are inevitably going to break up anyway. He doesn't know that. Heck, possibly even they don't know. It is much better to let her work that out on her own, and after all that drama subsides, if she's still interested then, that would be the time to explore it.

Again, I don't know. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned here, but I just don't personally think it is right to interfere in somebody's relationship. Whether or not to end an existing relationship is a decision that belongs to TWO people (the people in the relationship) and nobody more.

[Hooo!]

Well you could just tell her that you will wait for her - but not too long and that she should make up her own mind (leading).
Let her enjoy a very good time with you (leading), making her horny (leading) and then taking away all the goodies (being respectfull and waiting for her to decide).
You can also be charming and nice towards her boyfriend she is with now. So if she says something negative about him - you jump to his side (if that was sensible) and tell her that he is actually a very good boy (also being respectful). Which means she will subconciously disagree with you, because it feels different to her. Then she looks for more negative reasons (leading).

I have done this. It worked well for me. The boy in question now is happily married with 1 o r2 children and a beautiful wife who loves chickens btw.


I personally dont have much respects for labels such as "doctor", "scientist", "boyfriend" or "relationship". Either the girl is with a partner that she has no need cheating on - or she isnt. In both scenarios its ok to game her because I will fail in scenario 1 and have success in scenario 2.
And the decision to end a relationship belongs to ONE person. Not two.
The opposite would be like saying if you quit your job, your boss has to agree with you.



Another example: It happens so often that you talk to a woman and shes like "I have a boyfriend!..."
And im like :"yeah nice. I have too. Several in fact."
It doesnt interest me at all. Im interested in the woman. not in her "boyfriend". Whatever she means by that.
Sometimes thats just a shittest or excuse.
Sometimes woman dont want to be alone, so they stay with a man who they are "reasonably happy with". And that is okay.
Its also ok to offer her to substitute that person with another one whom she will find the relationship with that she deserves.
If that happens to be me or you or the next guy - all the better for all of them.