My girlfriend is beyond any logic

[Mike91]

Hi guys,

so... a few days ago I've found out that my girlfriend has booked an holiday to Greece for her and the ex. I didn't know anything about it and I've found the confirmation on Booking.com.

She told me she was going to see her ex while away for 10 days (she was going back to see her family), because they're still friends. What she forgot to tell me is that they're going to Greece together for an entire week.

I'm not even worried that she's going to sleep with him, to be honest. I think she won't do it. What is worrying me is that... she thinks is the victim here.

Let me just tell what SHE thinks about the all situation:

• She's the one who's suffering for this, because it's going to be difficult to see her ex after months. (As far as I'm concerned, she's the one who decided to see her ex. Am I missing something?)

• She's complaining with me because she'll even have to go on holiday with him! (Do you get it, guys? I'm not the one who should be mad and hurt for the fact that my girlfriend is going on vacation with her ex. I need to have pity for her, because she'll suffer far more than me by going on holidays with him).

• I told her 'if you go, I'm going away the day after and I'll come back when I feel like it'. She got upset and told me not to book the flight, because her ex might decide to not go on holiday with her... and in that case we'll go together. I mean... am I your last option or something?! If you want to go on holiday with me, do it. Don’t wait for him to cancel the trip with you. This is so disrespectful that I can’t even believe what I’m hearing.

• She got mad at me about the all situation. That’s right. She said I don’t deserve anything because she gave me 95% of her and I’m still complaining because she wants to give the 5% left to her ex. Not only I shouldn’t complain and be hurt and sad about all of this… I should also stop to pretend that I deserve the 100% from her.

Guys, I mean… what she’s doing is really upsetting and all of that, but what is not making me sleep at night is her ‘logic’ (or whatever you might call it). Why? I mean, why? Every person I told this couldn’t believe the all situation. She’s so manipulative that she turned a bad thing that she did in something where she’s the one suffering and I’m the asshole of the all situation.

Again… why?

Thank you guys!

[shrah25]

Hi guys,

so... a few days ago I've found out that my girlfriend has booked an holiday to Greece for her and the ex. I didn't know anything about it and I've found the confirmation on Booking.com.

She told me she was going to see her ex while away for 10 days (she was going back to see her family), because they're still friends. What she forgot to tell me is that they're going to Greece together for an entire week.

I'm not even worried that she's going to sleep with him, to be honest. I think she won't do it. What is worrying me is that... she thinks is the victim here.

Let me just tell what SHE thinks about the all situation:

• She's the one who's suffering for this, because it's going to be difficult to see her ex after months. (As far as I'm concerned, she's the one who decided to see her ex. Am I missing something?)

• She's complaining with me because she'll even have to go on holiday with him! (Do you get it, guys? I'm not the one who should be mad and hurt for the fact that my girlfriend is going on vacation with her ex. I need to have pity for her, because she'll suffer far more than me by going on holidays with him).

• I told her 'if you go, I'm going away the day after and I'll come back when I feel like it'. She got upset and told me not to book the flight, because her ex might decide to not go on holiday with her... and in that case we'll go together. I mean... am I your last option or something?! If you want to go on holiday with me, do it. Don’t wait for him to cancel the trip with you. This is so disrespectful that I can’t even believe what I’m hearing.

• She got mad at me about the all situation. That’s right. She said I don’t deserve anything because she gave me 95% of her and I’m still complaining because she wants to give the 5% left to her ex. Not only I shouldn’t complain and be hurt and sad about all of this… I should also stop to pretend that I deserve the 100% from her.

Guys, I mean… what she’s doing is really upsetting and all of that, but what is not making me sleep at night is her ‘logic’ (or whatever you might call it). Why? I mean, why? Every person I told this couldn’t believe the all situation. She’s so manipulative that she turned a bad thing that she did in something where she’s the one suffering and I’m the asshole of the all situation.

Again… why?

Thank you guys!

Hi [MENTION=83513]Mike91[/MENTION]

Thanks for your post.

Ok, so I completely sympathise with you and what you're going through. I'm a guy and hence, in our 'logical' world, I can totally understand where you're coming from. However, what I will say is that, no matter how thin you slice it, there are always two sides to the story :-)

Now I don't mean that you are telling 'fibs' or anything - I just mean that she will naturally have a completely different perspective and you have obviously articulated that well in your post.

However, it now really boils down to the standards by which you want to set for this relationship and also the standards that you wish to be treated by.

For me, the immediate red flag is that she wants to go on holiday with her ex. The relationship should be in such a state that she wants to holiday with you, not him.

Secondly, an unconscious female is an emotional world, not a logical world. I see this so many times with my clients and it's not right or wrong, it's just a different way of viewing things. But for a male, this is extremely difficult to comprehend and doesn't make a lot of sense. However, when you can truly understand that point of view, your ability to relate and interact with women is entirely different.

Thirdly, her responses are evident of the fact that she's in reactive and defensiveness mode and that never works in terms of getting the best outcome.

So i'm curious - what are your plans now? How are you going to move forward?

Thanks

[Mike91]

Thank you so much for your post.

First of all, forgot to tell you that I’m 25 and she’s 27. She’s my first and she’s only been in another relationship before me.

I really don't know what to do, to be honest. She obviously love me, in a way. I'd tell you that. When we met she was just going out of a relationship that lasted 12 years. I've been with here for two years now, watching her cry about her ex over and over. She still does, actually.

With time she tried to cut contacts with him. At first she stopped calling him, then she stopped sending him messages and now they only write emails between each other. In the meantime she also started to live with me in my apartment (last 3 months). These are all big steps for her and that’s why she’s feeling like this when I don’t approve her seeing her ex or going on vacation with him.

As I said, they’re like friends and to be honest they’ve been friends during the last 3-4 years of their relationship. There was nothing ‘romantic’ about their relationship anymore. They didn’t even make love for a long time and to be honest she’s unsure if he’s gay or not (because he was never interested in making love with her from almost the beginning of their relationship).

I’ve said this already: I’m not worried that she’s going to sleep with him. The didn’t do it when they were a couple and they’re not going to do it now that she’s with me. She’s a very emotional girl and she couldn’t stand the idea of making love with someone else.

That’s not the problem, of course. The problem is that I don’t get anything of what she says and it looks almost surreal to me. Her way in trying to justify what she’s doing is beyond unbelievable.

She’s an emotional wreck and the ending of her last (and first) relationship destroyed her inside. She keeps crying and tell me that she’s doing everything she can to move on, but that she needs time. Again: this is true. I’ve even met her parents two times and they know everything about me. The only person that doesn’t know anything is her ex. This is the other thing. She doesn’t want to tell him because she might ‘lose him’ and she doesn’t feel like she has to tell him everything about her personal life.

What do you think about all of this? Thanks again for your help.

[Hooo!]

i think you are the rebound and she still loves the other guy

and thats not a bad thing. thats ok. However not talking to you about everything she feels is the tricky point.

sri is right. women (almost all of them) see the world emotionally. They do not want to see the world logically and some even cant.
That is a fact you must understand.

however if she is not being honest and authentic with you then this is her problem.
If you want to go as 3 ppl then do so
if she wants to go alone with her ex then she should

however thats not something id tolerate. Or to word it better, if shed be honest with me regarding all her emotionions then i probably would.
however i doubt that this is the case in your scenario.

[TheEvilJester]

Well, I will point out that no two people, women or otherwise, are alike. So, it isn't really a fair assessment to simply say that women think emotionally, not rationally. That's not true of all women, and frankly there are even some men who do that as well.

Though, I will say this... I do agree with Hooo and shrah that women do generally think more emotionally than men do generally....

BUT....

I don't personally think that is a valid excuse for something like this. I could be wrong, but I think even most women would be baffled by this. Not only by your girlfriend wanting to go on holiday with her ex in the first place, but also by her so called "logic" around why you should not be upset with her for this.

Though I wish I could have a more optimistic view, I will also have to agree with Hooo that it sounds to me like this girl really still loves her ex. I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't love you. I can't know that. But, if we are right about that, it at least means she is not giving your relationship the full respect and attention it deserves. As a general rule of thumb, I tend to say that you can't tell people what to do, not even your girlfriend. So, to be perfectly honest, if her friendship with her ex is too important to her, then you can't make her give him up. ....BUT, that does NOT mean you have to just be okay with it.

Personally, I understand how you feel. I, myself, would NOT be okay with a girlfriend who is still that close to her ex. That's not even coming from somebody prone to jealousy. I trust my partner if/when I have one. It isn't about that, it's just about basic decency and respect. I shouldn't have to be put in the position where I'd even have to have a concern like this. To me, being unable to let go of an ex is often (not always, but often) a sign of immaturity, not the opposite. You can't be an adult and just do something that will initially be hard.... but in the long run will be best for all parties involved. Both the two exes as well as the partners they may have in the future. It's one thing to be FRIENDLY with an ex, but I almost never see any valid reason to remain actively friends.

Anyway, so to sum all that up....

I fully understand how you feel. I think you have every right to feel that way. I think I'd feel exactly the same way. Frankly, I think this would be a deal breaker for me personally, ESPECIALLY considering the way she reacted to you trying to share your feelings with her on this. So, I think my gut reaction is to tell you that you should just move on and you deserve better....

But I'm trying not to be so cynical and am trying not to jump to conclusions. So, if you'd like to still be with her, I guess maybe I'd suggest you take a little time to take some distance. Frankly, her trip would be a good time to do just that. In that case, I would say you don't necessarily present this to her like you are "taking a break." For example, if you two had a fight (which this sort of was), you wouldn't necessarily need to take a break, but you might want at least a couple days apart so you can think, process, and calm down. So, this would just be that for now.

Take that time to gather your thoughts. If, then, you are willing to look past it, that is a time to talk about this again, but with a more level head. Tell her that you understand her wanting to still be friendly with her ex.... that you don't mistrust her.... but just share with her how this makes you feel and why. How her reaction to the discussion makes you feel like she values an ex more than she values you. Things like that. In other words, using a lot of "I feel" type statements rather than in any way making it sound like you are pointing the finger of blame. If she can't understand that, and can't or won't work with you to compromise in a way that would keep you both happy, then she doesn't deserve you anyway.

Good luck to you.

[pcmaster]

12 year relationship is really a lot. I remember I dated this chick who had 10 year relationship and she talked about her ex since first date. So yeah its not easy to move on. And you really are just putting up with this crap despite that she is full of shit.

Best thing would be is say to her - If you go to Greece with your ex then we are over. That would show some self respect from you and make her finally choose you or her ex. Keeping contact with ex is something you could call her out on too - Make her choose - keep contact with her ex and you leave or stop contact with her ex and you stay together.

The problem here is that she dont respects you. And love without respect is like angel without one wing - it can not fly.

You will have ability and power to leave her. Its hard for you to be ready to leave her since shes your first. Thats why you put up with things that you should not tolerate and you stay with her when she clearly shows she dont deserves you - not ready to be in relationship.

Your biggest weakness here is that you like her, otherwise you wouldnt let her get away with all the ex crap.

"Wow... he let me treat him this way, he let me do this to him. He is afraid to be man, if he lets me do this thing to him, what else will he let me do? Will he protect me when I need him? Maybe not, if he is afraid to put me in my place. How can he protect me from another man when I need him? He is not the secure guy I thought. He looks weak to me. I can manipulate him now to do what I want him to do. I can get away with anything now. I can do what I want. I'm in control of things now. He is not. He will jump through my hoops. I can tell him what to do. How can I take him seriously anymore when he won't stand up to me? He is not a challenge, maybe I need to look for another guy. His insecure behavior really disgusts me. He is not a man that I need. I have to let him go. I need another guy. He is gone, we are over."

[TheEvilJester]

I agree with everything PC had to say above with just one minor exception. I don't necessarily agree with the method. I wouldn't personally agree that you give her an ultimatum such as "It's the ex or me" or "If you go to Greece with your ex, then we are over." Why not? Because, quite frankly, I don't think she deserves that power. That decision belongs to you, not her. I don't think ultimatums work in general. Very rarely if ever would I recommend something like that.

To my personal view, it shouldn't have to get to that point in the first place. If you get to a point where you HAVE to issue an ultimatum like that to somebody just to get the respect you deserve.... then maybe they didn't deserve you in the first place. So, more so I just recommend you share with her how this makes you feel and why and leave it up to her to decide if you are important enough to her to make this right. If not, then she doesn't deserve you anyway. If you share your feelings with her, it should be pretty obvious to her that her being THAT close to an ex is not okay to you. You shouldn't have to spell it out for her or essentially basically beat her over the head with the obvious.

Still, other than exact delivery, I fully agree with PC.