Some passing thoughts on roles in relationship

[Mish]

i wasn't even talking to you ya freakin gopher.

So....

WHO were you talking to then Miso?

[IndiReloaded]

Fras & Grib, if you are referring to my post you aren't understanding a fundamental concept. I never said giving is wrong. I'm saying that not everyone who does it understands their own motives, which actually CAN be selfish, as counterintuitive as it might seem to a healthy psyche.

Fras, you very well know I volunteer a lot in my community b/c we've discussed it before, so you know my opinion on that. That's not the point of my post. Its about giving as relates to motives & expectations.

[Mish]

What I would 'test' for, if I had to do so, would be for signs of an egocentric personality & rule those ppl out. Which is more than merely finding someone who is apparently giving, BTW. Some of the most egocentric personalities I've worked with are some of the most 'giving' ppl you could ever meet. But its only on a very superficial level & its often misplaced. Wives who martyr themselves for their families, men who 'give in' to their unreasonable partners with no benefit (Blue's example), employees who are willing to take on the hard, dirty work all the time; this type of giving is actually a convoluted form of selfishness (and often masochism). Its hard to detect, but you see it come out when the 'giving' is rejected by the intended recipient (b/c its not what they really wanted) & the Giver gets angry at the rejection. How could the recipient possibly reject such wonderful help/advice/gifts/whatever? They are genuinely confused as to why this happens & its sad b/c often the giver really does mean well, its just misplaced intentions based in selfishness & need. Its actually very difficult for these ppl to understand this about themselves, and it largely has to do with poor messages they received growing up about what it means to truly love someone. I'll tell you, its very hard to retrain these personalities (it can be done, tho, if you have skill & patience) so I'd think it easiest to just know what to look for & avoid these types.

Anyway, true giving is more about providing that which another person actually needs, not what you think they need. For those who have never been in this kind of partnership, the next closest example of this would be a parent's love for their children. True giving for a partner comes from a deep understanding of one's partner & one's own abilities (in other words, you have to actually know what you can & cannot reasonably offer your partner). Ersatz giving, strangely enough, comes from one's own *selfish* need & is not true giving. Be sure to understand the difference b/c its important to a good relationship.

*kiss*

Some food for thought there Indi and definetly something to keep in mind when looking. I know what you mean when you talk about "genuine" altruism, one which is not shrouded in concealed selfish desires. These people are hard to spot, but I think I'm getting better at spotting them. Actually, now that you mention it, I was infatuated with one girl last year until I found out that her altruism was totally superficial and was there mostly so she can fit in with the group and noting to do with actually giving anything to anyone.

The true giving is built on understanding. And understanding is grounded in good empathic listening skills. This is something that I'm getting better at developing. The girls I truly care about (and these girls are almost always the altruistic kind) I listen with the intent to understand. I'm getting better at picking out their wants and needs and its these that I will be providing for in order to make them happy. These are the means how I will test my theory.

Since we are on the subject, have you read Stephen Covey's "7 habits of highly effective people"?

Remember what I said before, Mish. Good relationships are less found than they are made.

This is what I'm hoping to discover for myself Indi. If good relationships are made then we're living in a world of opportunity. What this means is that the girl of my dreams can be mine if I put enough effort in to make her mine

*Kiss Kiss*

[vashti]

This thread sucks.

[Junket]

Fras & Grib, if you are referring to my post you aren't understanding a fundamental concept. I never said giving is wrong. I'm saying that not everyone who does it understands their own motives, which actually CAN be selfish, as counterintuitive as it might seem to a healthy psyche.

Fras, you very well know I volunteer a lot in my community b/c we've discussed it before, so you know my opinion on that. That's not the point of my post. Its about giving as relates to motives & expectations.

I wasn't even aware of your post, I was simply responding to Gribs, which I guess was subsequently in response to yours.

-shrug-

[Mish]

This thread sucks.

Vash sucks

Don't spoil it for those who're interested


Shoo

[Junket]

This thread sucks.

Vashti.

I will fight you.

[vashti]

Vashti.

I will fight you.

That would be more intersting than this thread. i might even let you win.

[Mish]

Just for the record.

Everyone has my permissions to ignore Vash's comments in my thread and continue to have fun. Don't let her gate crash out party

[IndiReloaded]

The true giving is built on understanding. And understanding is grounded in good empathic listening skills. This is something that I'm getting better at developing.

It sure seems like it, Mish. I hope you'll find that with a skillful partner, or even a merely willing one, this will ramp up exponentially as you help each other. Anyway, its something we're all working on. In this area, there are no 'experts'. Only ppl at various points on the continuum.

Since we are on the subject, have you read Stephen Covey's "7 habits of highly effective people"?

A long time ago, when the book first came out. I should reread it, I guess. Esp the part about 'order of understanding'. Of course, I am quite happy to drop seeds & let those w/better rapport make the final connection. Not everyone is able to connect equally w/all personalities based on background & experience. I'm quite beyond any need to do things all myself, clever, clever Mish.

[IndiReloaded]

Just for the record.

Everyone has my permissions to ignore Vash's comments in my thread and continue to have fun. Don't let her gate crash out party

Vash was just trying to help (thank you Vash). We're a couple of married women finding the know-it-all mentality of the youngster occassionally irritating. The mentality will pass, it always does, it just takes time.

I *can't* be the only one that finds it funny that GS potentially tried to insult me & I didn't even read it?? Reminds me of this earnest pelican I once saw divebombing a fish only to miss & trip ass over head. No harm done. Its the internet, who frankly cares?

[Junket]

That would be more intersting than this thread. i might even let you win.

Could we do it naked?

Sorry, me and Ames were gettin' down and dirty when our roommates came back.

The only bathroom is in our room, so no privacy.

I might get another case of blue balls.

[Mish]

Vash was just trying to help (thank you Vash). We're a couple of married women finding the know-it-all mentality of the youngster occassionally irritating. The mentality will pass, it always does, it just takes time.

I understand Indi. I just find your way of helping through empathic understanding and caring / nurturing advice which is genuinely aimed at and seeking to help a lot more useful sometimes than Vash's "Where the f... did that come from?" type of help


I'd say it's not so much about intent, but the delivery. I know in the end Vash only means to help.

[IndiReloaded]

Vash sucks.

Of course.

So do I. We're actually really, really good at it. That's one of the reasons we manage to stay married for so long.

Fras, if Ames sucks too you better hold on to her, she's a keeper man.

[Junket]

No sex sucks.

Get it?

Eh?

Nevermind...