Pretext?

[Asparagoose]

Oh, my God. Take your meds, GrkScorp.

Anyway, DD, you have no right to confront this girl about whether or not she had homework. She doesn't owe you anything. She could have any number of reasons for not being able to go and you simply have to accept that she said no. The fact that she suggested lazertag is a really good sign- it sounds like she has a positive view of you and wants to hang out.

Don't get weird on her.

You have no idea. He's the type of person you can give a word to work with, and he'll turn it into a book. I think it's interesting to study the whole process, but there comes a point where you really don't want it to be a science. I think it just takes a certain something away from the whole experience. It's ok to have this in the back of your mind somewhere just for damage control, but don't be the little boy with a new toy who goes around making girls do things just for fun.

I also agree with Gigabitch, and i'm sure Grk would agree too. This girl you're talking about does have a positive view of you. It doesn't make sense for you to feel shot down or disappointed. It doesn't even make sense for you to be pushing. You might just be looking deeper into this homework thing for more than it's worth. It's more likely that she really did have homework, than her just pretending she had homework. Girls who are disinterested don't create situations where the two of you can hang out.

[Gigabitch]

I think one of these days GrkScorp is going to fall for some girl so hard that none of his preparedness will make a bit of difference. He'll just be sitting there, drooling and we hope she'll be kind.

And you, DarkDwarf, don't blow this for yourself. This could really go somewhere if you let it.

[DarkDwarf]

Alright, I don't know what I was thinking everyone. Thanks for the advice.

[DarkDwarf]

And Scorp, thanks for the book on my issues!

[GrkScorp]

I think one of these days GrkScorp is going to fall for some girl so hard that none of his preparedness will make a bit of difference. He'll just be sitting there, drooling and we hope she'll be kind.

I think one of these days may be closer than you think..,

This is not so much "preparedness" as it is.., just knowing both people.., understanding her struggle for control & power.., and managing risk to avoid the negative effects of giving all that to someone.., with reckless hands..

Think of it as emotional risk management.., i'm not willing to invest emotionally any more than she's willing to invest first.., she can act on a whim with attraction.., but that's no longer me.., and since women can't get me at attraction.., they are largely clueless as to how to go about getting a guy to emotionally invest afterwards.., at comfort.., the choice is all mine.., if I truly do like the girl.., I really will open up and emotionally invest.., if I don't like her.., that's the end of that..

But the days of irrational lust-based choice.., or pure-attraction based choice.., are all over.., now there is a seemlingly endless list of standards and qualifications.., to act as friction.., between first meeting someone.., and becomming emotionally invested in them.., in a flash.., logic will pop up to put the breaks on any emotional process taking place.., very quickly the question of.., "why are you feeling this way?" will come up in my mind.., and when I fail to answer it.., it's almost like clicking a reset button.., she starts back at level 1..

The reason things don't work out.., is perhaps because i'm slightly afraid of emotionally investing myself in someone.., I have only met two women in my life who made me feel comfortable enough to emotionally invest.., the first one made me regret it.., she's the cause of the fear.., I know that.., the second one is the reason for hope.., that I could get myself to do it again.., but for everyone else.., it's just been like having a toy around.., all great people.., it's just that there was never really anything there.., there was attraction.., great chemistry.., great sex.., but never any real connection.., maybe they felt connected to me.., but I never felt that way for them.., I didn't feel comfortable enough or trust them enough to allow myself to feel that way with them.., and when I came to realize that they were not the type of woman to allow me to feel comfortable enough or trust them enough to invest in them.., that's when I would realize that there was no point in keeping things going on.., now you all know why I get stuck on 2-3 week marks with casual dating..

Drooling? That sounds more like lust than love to me.., but the process for me.., emotional investment.., doesn't take place at attraction.., sure.., she may be a good-looking girl.., but so are the other girls in the room.., in the block.., city.., state.., country.., world.., why her? For me.., and for other guys.., emotional investment starts at connection.., comfort.., trust.., when that's not there.., there's no emotional investment.., and it's funny.., and sad at the same time.., that nearly all women are used to guys falling for them at attraction.., that when they come across someone who doesn't.., and all it takes is just comfort.., they're lost.., they have no idea what to do.., they find it easier to ask themselves.. "why doesn't he like me? does he like me?".., rather than just sit down and open up.., be honest.., and allow for comfort & trust to build..

And I need that.., because when I invest.., I invest generously.., there are a lot of eggs going into that one basket.., and I need to be certain that none of them are going to break.., and if someone can get me to emotionally invest.., it won't be by drooling.., it'll be by the overwhelming urge to just give.., give everything I have.., to that person.., love.., by letting me feel comfortable enough to trust them enough with everything i'm going to give to them.., that it's not something i'm going to regret later on..

I really hope then.., that I find that person you're talking about.., that's the kind of person I'm constantly looking for.., and if I find her.., more power to her.., I really do hope someone comes my way.., and I fall for them.., so hard.., that I can just give everything I have to them.., surrender completely.., and they can just have it.., because i'll want them to have it.., i'll want to give it to them.., because I know there's no self-interest.., just mutual respect.., that we're no longer seperate people.., but one entity.., till then..

Best,

GrkScorp

[DarkDwarf]

Holy crap. I just had time to fully digest all of that information and... holy crap.

I couldn't thank you enough.

[GrkScorp]

Holy crap. I just had time to fully digest all of that information and... holy crap.

That was pretty quick.., I suddenly feel a lot better now.., about choosing your thread..

If you were able to digest it.., well.., i'm glad it opened up your eyes to a couple of things.., but if you really do want to thank me.., then you know what you have to do..

Go get her..

Best,

GrkScorp

[CAM]

But following up to where we left off.., confrontation isn't always a bad thing.., it can be necessary.., to snap them back into reality.., and take them off their pedestle they're trying to have you help them sit comfortably on..

Well, yes...of course, there are times when you draw a line. When you draw a line, then you do so either knowing that she's become so emotionally entwined with you that she'll stay engaged (emotionally) despite the fact (or due to the fact) that you stood up for yourself. OR, if she's not emotionally committed (as is the case with the girl in this thread), she just walks off. Its a timing thing. Initially, you have to use honey to attract her. Carry that on too far and you are seen as a wuss. Carry that on for too little time and you are seen as an asshole.

Experience helps you figure out where you stand and what you can do.

[DarkDwarf]

This whole situation just took a turn for the worse (and is suddenly filled with drama). My best friend sent me an email last night informing me that, while he tried, he cannot 'back off' of this girl. I personally found this quite surprising, especially since I've done that for every other girl that we've both liked.

The fact that he cannot back off period makes it appear as though he does not value our friendship. I most certainly could back off for our friendship, and would willingly, but it seems as though he would not. Completely honestly, I don't know what I would do if he dated her. I wouldn't throw a fit. I feel that I am past that stage. It is not as though we would be competing for a prize, but an actual human being with feelings and the ability to make decisions.

I'm just a bit lost at the moment as to what to do. I really do like her, but this kid is/was my best friend.

And you know what else, I walked into school today with a smile on my face, ready to begin again with my newly discovered knowledge. Then I check my email and... BAM! Also, I don't understand why he couldn't talk to me in school about it.

[CAM]

This whole situation just took a turn for the worse (and is suddenly filled with drama). My best friend sent me an email last night informing me that, while he tried, he cannot 'back off' of this girl. I personally found this quite surprising, especially since I've done that for every other girl that we've both liked.

Well, good to learn this lesson now...all is fair in love and war. The mating game is a primitive emotion-driven thing. Love is a Battlefield, as Pat Benatar once said Really, it is about the animalistic thing called mating with the strongest or the most desireable...the most juiced up as a woman or a man. While this is all just a proxy war, a dress rehearsal...learn the game well. Learn it well. It is not a game for the rational thinker...it is a game for the animal in all of us. A good film that is probably beyond you at this point in your life, is called "Straw Dogs" with Dustin Hoffman...the classic Hegelian dialectic...juxtaposing the rational man with the animal man.

[Gigabitch]

So he gets her... why? Is it because he had "dibs" or something?

[DarkDwarf]

Heh, "dibs". No, most certainly not. I prefer not to treat women as property.

No, its just because I don't want to go through this with a friend. I honestly just hate all the drama. I know it is immature, but all this crap goes on when two people like one person in my school, and I am trying to avoid all of that, but maybe avoiding it is the wrong thing to do?

[GrkScorp]

Heh, "dibs". No, most certainly not. I prefer not to treat women as property.

No, its just because I don't want to go through this with a friend. I honestly just hate all the drama. I know it is immature, but all this crap goes on when two people like one person in my school, and I am trying to avoid all of that, but maybe avoiding it is the wrong thing to do?

Well.., to be fair.., you COULD "let him have her".., but also blow up his spot at the same time..

Sure.., you can say that it's not right to do that.., but to that i'll say.., it's not right to throw the pressures of "friendship" in your face.., and knowing that you are not one to ruin a friendship over a girl.., use it as leverage to claim her for himself and lock you out.., that's also "not right"..

Besides.., it's not like you're going to say or do anything "wrong" anyway.., all you're going to say to someone who is in her circle of friends is that.., "I just don't want (friend) thinking i'm talking to his girl.., because he really likes her.., and we're friends.., he knows I would never do that.., and I respect him.., so the last thing I want is for it to look like something that it's not.., and have him think things in his head.., especially when nothing is going on.., not in the mood for needless drama"

Don't worry about it.., girls will talk among themselves.., and before you know it.., your friend not only likes "really really likes her.., practically in love with" her.., (blew up his spot).., and anything he does at this point is doomed to failure (she knows or at least thinks he likes her.., so she always feels like she has the upper hand and he has to work harder).., but you are also seen as unavailable.., unless she makes it clear to your friend that she doesn't have any interest in him.., she'll never be able to get to you.. (would you look at that! now she has motivation to tell your friend that she's not interested in him.., and actually just likes you "someone else" instead.., thereby removing any limitation imposed by your friend.., logically.., since he no longer stands a chance.., and she's made it clear to him.., it makes no sense to uphold any restriction he put in place)

No big deal.., you can keep "talking" to her.., but there's really no harm in talking.., afterall.., it's not your fault if she feels more attracted to you.., it's not your fault if she's more interested in you.., and it's not your fault that she feels less attracted to him after she finds out that "he really really likes her.., practically in love with her.., to the point where he doesn't want other people talking to her.., blah blah".. It's not like you went up to HER and told her.., no.., you "just told her friend" and "didn't think she would tell her" (oops)..

Sorry.., you don't actually need to do any of that if you value your friendship with this guy more than you value this girl.., it's really just a choice of letting him be the hypocrite.., or allowing for both of you to be the hypocrites.., I just thought it would be interesting to offer a "loophole" of sorts to this problem.., and analyze one way around the problem..

Best,

GrkScorp

[DarkDwarf]

Hmm, well that is certainly an interesting idea, but the only thing that I would forsee to be a problem is that I am fairly sure that her friends know that I like her, hence telling them that I don't want it to look like it is something that it is not, would be a problem as they know it /is/ something.

Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying...

[DarkDwarf]

The sequence of events is:

(Attraction)(her realizing that she has none) --> (You reminding her of her attraction to you & pulling yourself away slowly.., being slightly unavailable.., and creating some fear of loss)

She texted me recently, I replied and then said I had to go. I thought that might fall into the above?