Help me settle a dispute

[supersoup]

And I would like some of you guys' help settling this.

Michael and Cameron who were dating for one month, who live 3 hours away.


Thursday 1/20: Michael books a trip to go skiing for the weekend with some friends on the weekend of 2/4

Monday 1/24: Michael tells Cameron that he would visit on weekend of 2/4 via Skype, he had forgotten he had made plans to go skiing

Tuesday 1/25: Michael remembers he already made plans to go skiing and tells Cameron that he can't visit because he had already scheduled a trip to snowshoe

Thursday 1/28: Michael invites Cameron to go on the ski trip

Friday 1/29: After some though Cameron declines the invitation

Sunday 1/30: Michael breaks up with Cameron because he was upset with how certain things were going

Monday 1/31: Michael tells Cameron that maybe he had acted too quickly and would like to work on things, Cameron agrees

Wednesday 2/2: Cameron asks Michael to skip ski trip to visit her, Michael declines because the ski trip was already scheduled and paid for and his friends were counting on him for a ride and to teach them how to ski

Friday 2/4: Michael goes to snowshoe

Sunday 2/6: Michael returns from snowshoe


Cameron's point:

Considering Michael broke up with Cameron, Michael needs to show her that he is willing to fight for her. Michael tries this by asking her if he can visit her valentines day weekend. Cameron reluctantly accepts saying he needs to try harder than that. Cameron thinks that Michael should skip the ski trip and visit her instead to show her that he cares and that by going on the trip Michael is essentially choosing skiing and his friends over her. Cameron feels that she deserves to be a higher priority and decides that she doesn't want to be with Michael anymore. Cameron wants someone who will do anything to get her back.


Michael's point:

A major part of being in a relationship is selflessness. Partners should not ask each other to give up things. Cameron should not ask Michael to give up the ski trip and leave his friends but instead want him to have fun on the trip and focus on working things out when he returns. By going on the trip Michael is not choosing skiing over Cameron, he is just going on the ski trip he had planned for 3 weeks, and assumed Cameron will not take it personally. Michael believes Cameron is acting selfish by wanting to sever communications because he didn't skip on his trip to come see her. Michael never has and claims he never will ask Cameron to give anything up for him.

I am one of those 2 people, I want non bias answers, I want to know if I am being unreasonable or not, I want you to have all the information. The break up had nothing to do with the ski trip.

So what do you guys think?

[sweetkissesforu]

I think Cameron is in the wrong and being selfish

[SelflessnHumble]

And I would like some of you guys' help settling this.

I am one of those 2 people, I want non bias answers, I want to know if I am being unreasonable or not, I want you to have all the information. The break up had nothing to do with the ski trip.

It's kind of humorous to say "The break up had nothing to do with the ski trip when you FAILED to
mention your relationship issues BEFORE the ski trip account in this post! Whether you believe it or not:
This is glaringly significant!

Michael and Cameron who were dating for one month, who live 3 hours away.

Right off the bat this is red flag #1...It sounds as though Cameron expect Michael to make time for her
due to the distance of the relationship...Skype is bullshit compared to physical contact.

Thursday 1/20: Michael books a trip to go skiing for the weekend with some friends on the weekend of 2/4

Monday 1/24: Michael tells Cameron that he would visit on weekend of 2/4 via Skype, he had forgotten he had made plans to go skiing

It sounds like Michael phucked up big time!

Michael plans a ski trip and doesn't tell his woman of one month his plan (based on this post) and your writing ability.
No one forgets about a planned and booked ski trip...I have to ask how far away is SHE from the ski location?

Tuesday 1/25: Michael remembers he already made plans to go skiing and tells Cameron that he can't visit because he had already scheduled a trip to snowshoe

Thursday 1/28: Michael invites Cameron to go on the ski trip

Friday 1/29: After some though Cameron declines the invitation

This is because SHE expected you to give her an entire weekend, not share it with ski buddies.

Sunday 1/30: Michael breaks up with Cameron because he was upset with how certain things were going

Please tell us WHY you dumped her Sunday: BEFORE the ski trip, considering you are both 3 hours away from each other?

Wednesday 2/2: Cameron asks Michael to skip ski trip to visit her, Michael declines because the ski trip was already scheduled and paid for and his friends were counting on him for a ride and to teach them how to ski

Your ski trip was planned and just because you're a schlemiel doesn't mean you should cancel the trip to make
ONE girl happy. She's in the wrong clearly and selfish.

Cameron's point:

Considering Michael broke up with Cameron, Michael needs to show her that he is willing to fight for her. Michael tries this by asking her if he can visit her valentines day weekend. Cameron reluctantly accepts saying he needs to try harder than that. Cameron thinks that Michael should skip the ski trip and visit her instead to show her that he cares and that by going on the trip Michael is essentially choosing skiing and his friends over her. Cameron feels that she deserves to be a higher priority and decides that she doesn't want to be with Michael anymore. Cameron wants someone who will do anything to get her back.

Cameron's a butthurt baby booboo who, when she doesn't get her way will use what Michael had done and said as
ammunition to be used against him: and punish HIM. Cameron sounds like an ego entrenched, self absorbed princess
who feels she is better than others and that "ordinary" gestures of reconciliation aren't "good enough" to satisfy her shitty point of view of how relationships work and operate. Cameron is immature, selfish and full of herself wanting a guy she;s only known for A month to choose HER over his friends he's not only known longer: but had made a commitment with
them at the ski location...She needs to get a life and learn how to appreciate other people.

Michael's point:

A major part of being in a relationship is selflessness. Partners should not ask each other to give up things. Cameron should not ask Michael to give up the ski trip and leave his friends but instead want him to have fun on the trip and focus on working things out when he returns. By going on the trip Michael is not choosing skiing over Cameron, he is just going on the ski trip he had planned for 3 weeks, and assumed Cameron will not take it personally. Michael believes Cameron is acting selfish by wanting to sever communications because he didn't skip on his trip to come see her. Michael never has and claims he never will ask Cameron to give anything up for him.

Yes, this is true.
While Michael did screw up (by not telling her 3 weeks ago of the trip) and involve her in the booking and
eventual confirmation so she would KNOW he was going to be busy: the fact you HAD booked the trip before
telling her of your plan to see her makes no difference...

She is a selfish piece of shit, Mike, and this kind of bullshit only gets worse where her delusions of grandeur
will envelop her mind more densely and soon she will force you to pick her over your parents.

She's nuts dude. 1 month?
Run dude, just run, and you tell her that while you can appreciate her wants and needs.
You aren't the man to satisfy them at the expense of relinquishing YOURS in the process, and then go.

[Petit Papillon]

Are you from Vatican? Really? Wow... this country is so small that we could find your real personality just by your first name lol .

[supersoup]

I wouldn't agree that Cameron is a "butthurt baby booboo" or a "selfish piece of shit". She is a great woman, just reacting to being hurt from the break up. She was vulnerable when Michael broke up with her heart and in her despair might have asked for too much. There is nothing to say that others wont act the same way if put in the exact same position. I believe that we both need to work on some things if we want it to work.

[vertical_sky]

I guess I personally think Michael is in the wrong here.

He makes an all-weekend plan to ski... then forgets to mention it... then promises to visit her... then breaks the promise... then breaks up with her... then says "Oh wait maybe I want to date you"... but oh, this ski trip is more important...

It sure seems like Michael is jerking Cameron around, and while selflessness CAN be good in a relationship, it really doesn't seem as if Michael is giving up anything for Cameron. He's pulling at her emotions a little bit (Together, not, together, not) but then demanding she respect his feelings of wanting to go on the ski trip. Selflessness is only good in a relationship if it exists on BOTH sides; if only one party is doing the sacrificing, or setting their needs aside, that isn't a relationship, that's a martyrdom.

[SelflessnHumble]

I wouldn't agree that Cameron is a "butthurt baby booboo" or a "selfish piece of shit". She is a great woman, just reacting to being hurt from the break up. She was vulnerable when Michael broke up with her heart and in her despair might have asked for too much. There is nothing to say that others wont act the same way if put in the exact same position. I believe that we both need to work on some things if we want it to work.

Her emotional and irrational "reaction(s)" from being butt-hurt from the break up are no excuse to act out like a 5 yr old that didn't get their way (as she did)
nor does it make her feel entitled to champagne wishes and caviar dreams just because you had a ski trip to make B4 your temporary dementia kicked in when
you forgot to involve her...Truth is the both of you are to blame here.

So, why did you break up, Mike? Why can you not answer the question?

[BackUpOrGetStng]

I think Michael is wrong to expect Cameron to take him back and not be willing to give up something small(a weekend ski trip to a bullshit mountain in West Virginia is something small; if it was Colorado you'd have full rights to smack her twice across the face), to show good faith in return. If you break up with a girl and then want her back right after, you should be able to happily jump through a reasonable hoop, like "I want you to come see me". It's a bit immature, but it's typical and if you really wanted her back you would have done it...I think you made a good choice by going on the trip, personally, but not if you wanted her back. Her wanting to sever communication for any reason is not wrong, it's what she wants and how she feels, there is no wrong. As I said earlier, she may be immature, but she is dealing with what she(and I) sees as a toxic relationship in the best way she sees fit. She probably feels extremely marginalized by you, and she doesn't see any reason to continue, so why do you think she's wrong for not wanting to speak to you? And why couldn't you just be up front with us you ****ing idiot, did you think it wasn't glaringly obvious which of the two you are?

[SelflessnHumble]

I guess I personally think Michael is in the wrong here.

He makes an all-weekend plan to ski... then forgets to mention it... then promises to visit her... then breaks the promise... then breaks up with her... then says "Oh wait maybe I want to date you"... but oh, this ski trip is more important...

It sure seems like Michael is jerking Cameron around, and while selflessness CAN be good in a relationship, it really doesn't seem as if Michael is giving up anything for Cameron. He's pulling at her emotions a little bit (Together, not, together, not) but then demanding she respect his feelings of wanting to go on the ski trip. Selflessness is only good in a relationship if it exists on BOTH sides; if only one party is doing the sacrificing, or setting their needs aside, that isn't a relationship, that's a martyrdom.

Hey you, nice post!
But I think the whole thing is crap to begin with.

They've been dating one month.
They live 3 hours a part so obviously she feels he hasn't made the time to see her, but to see his friends instead.
What has SHE done to make the effort to see him? Making effort is only effort if it exists in both, like being selfless.

She has the right to be upset, BUT not to take it out on him in the way she did.
Just as he felt he could dump her right before the trip, which he still hasn't answered as to why.
When someone tells you "it's not because of the trip" chances are: "it IS because of the trip!"

[supersoup]

The joy from a trip to Snowshoe is relative. Maybe to someone who has the money to go on any ski trip might not care about a trip to snow shoe, but to someone else a trip to Snowshoe could be a huge deal. Its unfair to universalize a trip like that. I tried to be cryptic so I can get an unbiased opinion. I tried to represent both sides as best as possible. I was trying to create a double-blind effect. I'm sorry it made you so upset.

[SelflessnHumble]

The joy from a trip to Snowshoe is relative. Maybe to someone who has the money to go on any ski trip might not care about a trip to snow shoe, but to someone else a trip to Snowshoe could be a huge deal. Its unfair to universalize a trip like that. I tried to be cryptic so I can get an unbiased opinion. I tried to represent both sides as best as possible. I was trying to create a double-blind effect. I'm sorry it made you so upset.

There is a nifty little "reply with quote button designed to address certain posters.
The fact is: no one is upset: heck I could care less because it's your life and your choice.

The fact is the both of you are to blame.
She has unrealistic expectations a la Princess Fiona from Shrek would have and YOU have the shittiest communication skills just south of a deaf, blind mute.
Both of you together are like an earth and water sign: you create mud.

The fact is you are more wishy washy than a politician..
She needs a man who is stable, secure and confident in their own skin. Not a coward who fails to communicate
effectively with his own woman while he has no issue becoming Richard F ucking Dawkins writing such a detailed dissertation on who did what and why on a public internet love forum soliciting for advice
to see who is right and who's wrong!

[CameronEm]

Here is person number two of the relationship giving her side of the story:
Michael and I decided in the beginning to see each other every two weekends. The first weekend we were together he said that in two weeks he had a skiing trip coming up and asked if I wanted to go, I said sure.
Following the skiing trip, he told me that was the weekend I was supposed to come up and visit him and he decided to bag the ski trip so that I could spend time with him at his place.
During the next 2 weeks he and I decided to visit each other two weekends in a row and have one weekend off. Separation of time and friends is vital to a successful relationship. So starting the following weekend (two weekends after the ski trip) I went to visit him up there, he and I talked about how the next weekend thereafter he would visit me.
A day or so before I was scheduled to visit him he informs me that the ski trip was now on the weekend he was supposed to visit me but said even though everyone already paid you are welcomed to come.
To me this sounds like he blew off the ski trip to hang out with me. Then the ski trip got moved and even though he knew I wanted to go, I wasn’t included in the planning. He knew the date enough in advance to get the money to pay and he still didn’t invite me until after the fact. I felt like a tag-a-long so I decided not to go.
That weekend I went to visit him and everything was great until I went to sleep on Saturday and he went through my cell phone. I got home from the trip and during a skype call I let him know that his trust issues so early on in the relationship concerned me and I wanted honest, open communication between us. After a back-and-forth of what I need s/wants and what he needs/wants he came to the conclusion that we should break up.
After some thought he reconsidered and wanted to get back together with me. Being only 3 hours away, if we were going to get back together it had to be in person. There is a difference between not being able to and not wanting to. He did not want to take the time to drive down and visit me (on a weekend he was supposed to be visiting me anyways) because he wanted to go on his ski trip.
I wasn’t asking for him to choose his friends or skiing over me, but I wasn’t going to wait around for him to do his thing before he gets around to wanting to get back together. He already broke my heart, I needed he was serious this time. I felt like he did not put in the effort that deserves giving him a second chance.

Any new thoughts on the matter?

[supersoup]

There is quite a lot of name calling, I'm just trying to get an accurate grasp on things, so I can make the best decisions, of course friends and family will lean my way, thats why I came to the internet.

[girl68]

I'm on Michael's side. Yes he made a booboo but he also made up for it by arranging a different time to see Cameron.

Cameron on the other hand sounds like: you *must* always continually choose me over all else, you need to prove without doubt that I come before anything else in your life. I don't care if you booked a trip, you should screw the trip and come see me. Yeah, hells no.

[SelflessnHumble]

Michael and I decided in the beginning to see each other every two weekends. The first weekend we were together he said that in two weeks he had a skiing trip coming up and asked if I wanted to go, I said sure.

Right off the bat I hope you know this was planned before you came around...

Following the skiing trip, he told me that was the weekend I was supposed to come up and visit him and he decided to bag the ski trip so that I could spend time with him at his place.

Are you speaking in the future tense here? After the ski trip was over you were supposed to come up
and visit him...How can he "bag" the ski trip AFTER he had already went on it? This makes no sense.

During the next 2 weeks he and I decided to visit each other two weekends in a row and have one weekend off. Separation of time and friends is vital to a successful relationship. So starting the following weekend (two weekends after the ski trip) I went to visit him up there, he and I talked about how the next weekend thereafter he would visit me.

Since you stated that on the first weekend you spent together: in 2 weeks time he was to go on a ski trip
in which you were invited to attend...If you saw him on the first weekend, and then each of the following 2 weekends>
2+1 = 3weekends, how can this be if in 2 weeks time you were to attend the ski trip? This makes no sense>

2/4 was on a friday so how long was the ski trip supposed to last until? Obviously more than one night right?

A day or so before I was scheduled to visit him he informs me that the ski trip was now on the weekend he was supposed to visit me but said even though everyone already paid you are welcomed to come.

Even if this was the case: you had seen him the scheduled 2 times a month, right?
He had already planned (albeit shittingly) a ski trip and somehow OOPS, messed up the dates.
If you are so involved with this relationship how in the world can such a discrepancy happen?
Women are supposedly very good at following up so THEY can too plan on making the trip...

What difference does it make if everyone had already paid???
He had already previously invited you!!! What's the issue here?

To me this sounds like he blew off the ski trip to hang out with me. Then the ski trip got moved and even though he knew I wanted to go, I wasn’t included in the planning. He knew the date enough in advance to get the money to pay and he still didn’t invite me until after the fact. I felt like a tag-a-long so I decided not to go.

You: (due to your lack of communication) and follow through ASS-U-ME-d incorrectly that he blew off the
trip to be with you...If the ski trip got moved, sure I understand he didn't involve you: and that is HIS bad, I see that.

When and if you addressed this the moment you found this fact out: what did he do?
Did he apologize?
Did he invalidate your feelings? What?
Either way: he isn't good with planning and multi-tasking.
Why get butthurt about it? His original plan was him and his friends: not with you too.
You were invited as a side item and the fact it was previously planned with him and his friends (first)
tells me perhaps he felt he didn't need to tell you about the change in scheduling...

This is the price to pay with a LDR even if it is "only" 3 hours away from one another.

That weekend I went to visit him and everything was great until I went to sleep on Saturday and he went through my cell phone. I got home from the trip and during a skype call I let him know that his trust issues so early on in the relationship concerned me and I wanted honest, open communication between us. After a back-and-forth of what I need s/wants and what he needs/wants he came to the conclusion that we should break up.
After some thought he reconsidered and wanted to get back together with me. Being only 3 hours away, if we were going to get back together it had to be in person. There is a difference between not being able to and not wanting to. He did not want to take the time to drive down and visit me (on a weekend he was supposed to be visiting me anyways) because he wanted to go on his ski trip.

First off: why didn't you address him going through your phone when you knew it happened? Why wait
(passively yet aggressively) via a skype call???

2nd: YOU cannot make someone make the effort to see you: if he doesn't have it in him:
bitching about it will not make him change. He did NOT want to take the drive down to visit you: but when?
Was he supposed to ditch his trip for you, on the weekend he promised you you'd see each other -only because
he made a mistake? It sounds like YES, in which case: this is selfish of you to expect this. PERIOD.

What do you mean: when you got back from the trip?
Did you go now? Did you just stay over his house, while he went? You make no sense...
And usually when a story is convoluted it is filled with omissions...The truth is free flowing, don't forget that.

I wasn’t asking for him to choose his friends or skiing over me, but I wasn’t going to wait around for him to do his thing before he gets around to wanting to get back together. He already broke my heart, I needed he was serious this time. I felt like he did not put in the effort that deserves giving him a second chance.

When did he break your heart?
YOU made demands as to what a relationship should be: including having a man who makes the time for YOU
in a relationship where the both of you originally wanted (and planned) to see each other 2 times a month!

Now because a preplanned ski trip gets in the way of your precious time with him: now you
actually expected him to ditch his trip: just to be with you????? Selfish much?

If he didn't put forth the effort: to your satisfaction: Accept IT and move on.
I feel like you are being very unfair about your expectations on the matter.

He has a life: you have a life.
You can't always get your way.
BUT you feel he chose his trip over you: when he had originally stated it was planned BEFORE...
This means IF the trip gets in the way of your planned arrangement to meet: then guess what?
Suck it up: and communicate that you want to see him 2 weeks in a row to make up for it, heck
if I was him I would have:

-Planned the trip so that you would go.
-IF the date was moved, I would have involved you so that you would understand.
-However if he had told you: would you still have expected him to ditch the trip just because
a possible schedule change interferes with a shotty at best arrangement of 2 times a month?

I mean, really???? What about leap year?