Steal him back?

[Lite]

You're an absolute moron. There's nothing to fight for. Your entire relationship was based around a lie that he wasn't seeing someone else. He wasn't faithful to her, why the hell do you think he's capable of being faithful to you? He put your health in jeopardy by sleeping with another person behind your back, and hers, and didn't care about either.

I don't get people like you, you're so stuck in your own little world where you feel you can fix another person's problems, "steal them back" when they leave you, and pretty much lead a guy around by his nose. I'm sorry, people don't work that way, and neither do successful relationships.

The real question here is why aren't you standing up for yourself, what he did to you, and working to ensure that you do not end up in another relationship like that.

What you're considering attempting will fail because it doesn't place the impetus upon him to change himself. It doesn't make him decide to change for the sake of his own sanity. Change for other people is temporary at best, but most often a sham and a lie to keep someone around that they truly do not deserve.

The right answer here is, "I am willing to forgive him IF he decides to stand on his own two feet, resolve his situation on his own like a real man, and when all of that is done, he no longer talks to her or her family outright, then we can talk about a future for us... If there still is one."

You're not placing any of the blame on him, and all of it on her. Which is pathetic. It's his life, he needs to fix it if it truly needs fixing.

What you're posting on here is a request for an excuse to behave poorly, and for others to justify your actions for you. We're not going to do it. If you already knew what you were going to do, then why did you come here to ask advice?

Either you're open to advice, or you're an idiot. You're most likely NOT the exception to the rule and in the end will just be hurting yourself.

[bluesummer]

Well said, Lite.

[Lite]

Well said, Lite.

Eh, people who go out of their way to sabotage their own love and happiness out of a desperate need to prove something to other people piss me off.

"Oh gee, this relationship feels better than any I ever had before and then it ended badly because it was all really co-dependent and damaging to all of us. But oh, that intensity of emotion, why can't I have that back? I know I can make it work."

Either you're capable of being objective and honest about the relationship, regardless of the emotion chemicals your brain is flooding your body with, or you're not.

People (everyone) have a habit of blaming the other person in the relationship for its failure, rather than their mate. The "other person" is that random person at any given point in time that is leeching energy from your relationship. An ex girlfriend, a best friend, some guy who thinks your boyfriend is an asshole so he's flattering you far more than your boyfriend (who has already seen that you have the ratty old cotton period underwear, and therefore knows there is no mystery) does...

They're all leeches, trying to take the energy you should be putting into your relationship as their own.

However, in this case the poster was the leech (unknowingly) that the guy chose to give his emotional energy to while hiding the fact that he was dating someone for 13 years. She blamed him, then heard about his circumstances. But, the fact remains he isn't strong enough or adult enough to fix his own shit first, then go date someone else.

Even if he ended his relationship with his girlfriend today, cut off all communication, he still wouldn't be ready to date the new gal. He would not have had time to mourn the death of his old relationship, resolve his feelings, and take a breather to catch his sanity back.

She thinks she can save him. She can't. She cannot be his hero, and attempting to do so will end very badly.

[IndiReloaded]

Interesting. I have thought about it too, but nothing makes sense to me right now. What makes you think he's like that, from what I write?

Well, lets see: he was 'testing' you during your time together. And, oh, I almost forgot. He was keeping a 13 year *wife* from you!

You do understand that, as far as the law cares, they are basically common-law? They've been living together, right? Might as well be his wife. Do you really want that kind of mess?

How does their mind work and how come they don't want to live a happy life?

Who cares? Do you think about your crap when you flush it away?

I think your real problem is, you KNOW he's a shit, but your ego has been bruised b/c you think these things don't happen to 'girls like you'. Good morning, sunshine! Of course they do, sometimes people pull stunts like this and you only find out by chance. The distance & his travelling made things very convenient for him.

I doubt you got through Lites post w/o getting upset. So, do yourself a favour and read it again. Try to stay calm. He's summed up your situation nicely. All you have to do is walk away from this immature, selfish jerk. Unless you don't believe your own comment about wanting a happy life?

[Lite]

I doubt you got through Lites post w/o getting upset. So, do yourself a favour and read it again. Try to stay calm. He's summed up your situation nicely. All you have to do is walk away from this immature, selfish jerk. Unless you don't believe your own comment about wanting a happy life?

Thanks.

I understand that she doesn't want to be a victim, she wants to play him as the victim. She's trying to save her ego, and really it's normal for all of us to do such things. But, she's here and supposedly asking for help. I fully believe in destroying an ego if it means they will wake up and re-evaluate the decisions they make in how they go about choosing a mate.

[Yggdrasil]

Confident, self respecting women attract cowards?

In a way, yes.

Hint: you have something he wants badly

That said.. read up on co-dependency.

[angelique]

Wow!
At least now I think I know what it had to be like for him when I kept yelling, judging and blaming.

You seem to be one of those people whose mind notice one or two familiar words and then automatically draw a range of conclusions without getting the bigger picture. When did HE leave ME? When did I not stand up for myself?

You see, in my little world I actually did that for quite some time, and I said and did everything you obviously don't think "people like me" are capable of, but now, months later, I have started to look at it from different angles as well (which unfortunately is something many people are unable to do), as the world surely is not black and white. It would be so much more helpful if you could help me navigate instead of judging. (I have already addressed my somewhat misleading headline, so no further comment there.)

If I had asked you for advice at a different time in this process, my bet is that you would have judged me (the very same person, with the very same characteristics) very differently. I used to be very black-white in response to cheating-lying-scenarios as well, so I understand you, I'm just saying it's not very helpful right now. (I will redefine my objectives later)

But to your "questions":

1. What makes me think he would be capable of being faithful to me: I don't. That is something one never knows with anyone. What I know is that we are good together. I think we are better people when we are together. Could I have a relationship with him now, no. It would require him to develop a much more solid ego first.

Nevertheless, if I felt I could trust him again, it wouldn't be the end of the world if he cheated on me.

2) My health was not put in any more jeopardy than with any other guy. They hadn't slept together in a long time (Yes they all say that, but in this case it was confirmed by her, via others. And maybe she was cheating on him anyway, who knows?)

3) I don't feel I can fix his problems, but I truly care about him and even if we can't be a couple, I truly wish for him to develop more ego strength, for his own sake. I hope I can find a way to inspire that in him. Like you would do to anyone you truly care about and believe in.

....That is also why I never (up until this little post here) focused on "getting him back", but on setting a standard for what I expect/don't accept, and in a "tough love" kind of way trying to inspire him to grow, even if it meant driving him away (In comparison to his girlfriend who only wants him to stay dependent on her).
He never got the impression I wanted him back. He feels dumped and shameful, and now he probably feels he has to defend his decision of staying with her.

I think it's sad that he takes shortcuts and says "Everything is fine now, I just had a hard time talking about our problems so I cheated instead, but I'm happy now" (Even his friends think it's not like that). I wish there was a way I could inspire growth, but his avoidant pattern makes it hard.

4) What you're saying about my blame-placing is also mistaken, and again you are underestimating me. From the moment I found out about her, I kept defending her and placed all the responsibility on him. I still do place all responsibility on him. Even if I now understand that it's not that easy for him to stand on his own two feet, and even if I now know more about the dymamics between the two of them, I'm still mad at him and it's still his responsibility.

All in all I have shown strength and courage in this situation, and I won't accept being called pathetic, moron or idiot.

Now the redefinition. The question is not "how can I steal him back", but "How can I inspire growth in him, regardless of who he ends up with". (My intentions are divided: 1. I hope he can grow into a man I can be with, but 2. Regardless, I truly care about him and want what's best for him.)

Have I made myself clear now?

You're an absolute moron. There's nothing to fight for. Your entire relationship was based around a lie that he wasn't seeing someone else. He wasn't faithful to her, why the hell do you think he's capable of being faithful to you? He put your health in jeopardy by sleeping with another person behind your back, and hers, and didn't care about either.

I don't get people like you, you're so stuck in your own little world where you feel you can fix another person's problems, "steal them back" when they leave you, and pretty much lead a guy around by his nose. I'm sorry, people don't work that way, and neither do successful relationships.

The real question here is why aren't you standing up for yourself, what he did to you, and working to ensure that you do not end up in another relationship like that.

What you're considering attempting will fail because it doesn't place the impetus upon him to change himself. It doesn't make him decide to change for the sake of his own sanity. Change for other people is temporary at best, but most often a sham and a lie to keep someone around that they truly do not deserve.

The right answer here is, "I am willing to forgive him IF he decides to stand on his own two feet, resolve his situation on his own like a real man, and when all of that is done, he no longer talks to her or her family outright, then we can talk about a future for us... If there still is one."

You're not placing any of the blame on him, and all of it on her. Which is pathetic. It's his life, he needs to fix it if it truly needs fixing.

What you're posting on here is a request for an excuse to behave poorly, and for others to justify your actions for you. We're not going to do it. If you already knew what you were going to do, then why did you come here to ask advice?

Either you're open to advice, or you're an idiot. You're most likely NOT the exception to the rule and in the end will just be hurting yourself.

[angelique]

Eh, people who go out of their way to sabotage their own love and happiness out of a desperate need to prove something to other people piss me off.

"Oh gee, this relationship feels better than any I ever had before and then it ended badly because it was all really co-dependent and damaging to all of us. But oh, that intensity of emotion, why can't I have that back? I know I can make it work."

Either you're capable of being objective and honest about the relationship, regardless of the emotion chemicals your brain is flooding your body with, or you're not.

People (everyone) have a habit of blaming the other person in the relationship for its failure, rather than their mate. The "other person" is that random person at any given point in time that is leeching energy from your relationship. An ex girlfriend, a best friend, some guy who thinks your boyfriend is an asshole so he's flattering you far more than your boyfriend (who has already seen that you have the ratty old cotton period underwear, and therefore knows there is no mystery) does...

They're all leeches, trying to take the energy you should be putting into your relationship as their own.

However, in this case the poster was the leech (unknowingly) that the guy chose to give his emotional energy to while hiding the fact that he was dating someone for 13 years. She blamed him, then heard about his circumstances. But, the fact remains he isn't strong enough or adult enough to fix his own shit first, then go date someone else.

Even if he ended his relationship with his girlfriend today, cut off all communication, he still wouldn't be ready to date the new gal. He would not have had time to mourn the death of his old relationship, resolve his feelings, and take a breather to catch his sanity back.

She thinks she can save him. She can't. She cannot be his hero, and attempting to do so will end very badly.

You know, you could have had so much more impact if you did less of the over-asuming. WE ALL KNOW how girls make excuses for the other person due to oxytocin and all the other chemicals, it's old news aaand it's annoying when it happens. But for your information I was never that much chemically, mind-cloudingly "in love" with him. I felt deep peace, and no, I have not felt like that with anyone before. I'm not looking to resume a relationship with him to any cost, but I know we are good together and I would love to have him as a close friend.

He never spoke badly of her or blamed her. He's an idiot for cheating and lying, he knows it, we know it. He accepts the blame in a way I've never seen cheating men do before. Unfortunately he's in some sort of dog-owner dynamics with her and he feels so ashamed now he'll rather spend his life making it up to her than doing what's fair to himself.

Yes, it would probably take years before he was ready for a new relationship if he was to do it the "right way" instead of overlapping, if he didn't mourn the relationship a long time ago, and it pisses me off because it means we never had a chance then, and it makes me feel more used and hurt. Still, I look at those of my friends who are happily married, and more than half of them did some sort of overlapping. Can our (rigid, at times) sense of morality unnecessarily disrupt our chances of happiness?

I don't want to be a hero, but like I say, I hope to find a way to inspire him to grow into the man he can become, because I care and because I feel connected to him.

[IndiReloaded]

Good luck with that denial thing, Angel. Hope it works for you. Nothing else to say.

[angelique]

Well, lets see: he was 'testing' you during your time together. And, oh, I almost forgot. He was keeping a 13 year *wife* from you!

You do understand that, as far as the law cares, they are basically common-law? They've been living together, right? Might as well be his wife. Do you really want that kind of mess?

(....)

Who cares? Do you think about your crap when you flush it away?

I think your real problem is, you KNOW he's a shit, but your ego has been bruised b/c you think these things don't happen to 'girls like you'. Good morning, sunshine! Of course they do, sometimes people pull stunts like this and you only find out by chance. The distance & his travelling made things very convenient for him.

I doubt you got through Lites post w/o getting upset. So, do yourself a favour and read it again. Try to stay calm. He's summed up your situation nicely. All you have to do is walk away from this immature, selfish jerk. Unless you don't believe your own comment about wanting a happy life?

The testing is something I saw in hindsight. Maybe I hadn't thought about it if it hadn't been for the outcome here.

Wife and wife, more like a "we're too lazy to break up"-situation where one gets a job in another city to be away as much as possible. Not exactly a marriage.

Yes I know he's a shit, or that he's a shit NOW. (My ego (and body) has taken more beatings than most people my age, so i am unfortunately very aware that bad things can happen to me.)
But he wasn't always a shit, he used to be a decent guy. Now he's obviously trying to become that guy again. Only problem is his idea of "decent guy" seems to be more about appearances and loyalty to his "owner" than development of ego strength. It would have been a whole lot easier to walk away if he had always been a shit and always would be. Now he can conveniently put me in the "mistake" category as if I was some slutty coworker he slept with once, and I find it hard to believe that I don't mean anything to him. (At first I thought I never did and went through months of grief, but I've been used before and this time there's too much that doesn't make sense.) This is where I'm struggling, I guess. It's like, I finally met a great guy who's also a good match AND likes me, but when WE meet he is a shit but THEN he goes back to being a good partner.

Lites post would be a whole lot more upsetting if he didn't do all the common overassuming. He says the exact same things that I myself more or less automatically used to say to people in my situation.

But let's do a thought experiment. Say he IS a decent guy who made the biggest mistake of his life, he knew it was wrong all along but messed it up, couldn't bring himself to tell the truth, and when he did he discovered it was harder to break up with her than he had previously thought. Even if he loves me he thinks there's no way he can have me, and he stays with her and tries to make it work. He tries to convince himself it's for the best. After months of me being angry with him, how do I signal that there IS a chance for us IF this and that?

[angelique]

Nothing else to say.

Oh I hope you will reply to my last post first

(Even if he's a shit and I should stay away, at least I hope to be able to wrap my mind around the part where he always used to be this super guy (according to his friends + gf) and how everything fits together.)

[angelique]

In a way, yes.

Hint: you have something he wants badly

That said.. read up on co-dependency.

So by becoming more healthy (uhm) and whole myself, I go from attracting the narcissistic types to the codependent types? Great!

So how am I supposed to differenciate men with such sponger-ish intentions from a man who's truly in love?

[IndiReloaded]

Oh I hope you will reply to my last post first

(Even if he's a shit and I should stay away, at least I hope to be able to wrap my mind around the part where he always used to be this super guy (according to his friends + gf) and how everything fits together.)

Hi Angel. Well, still not sure what else to tell you. Your last response just confirms you want your single experience with this guy to have more meaning than it probably does (to him).

I get the sense you need to believe that 'you aren't the kind of girl guys bang & run', but fact is it happens. Even to 'nice girls'. A certain amount of pride is healthy, but not when it clouds your judgment. You can't change what happened, however much your ego would like to.

I think you are going to have your heart shredded carrying on after this broken man. I think you deserve better than a 'fixer-upper'. You sound like a sincere gal. But its your life, of course. Some people need to learn the hard way when to cut bait. In your case, you are refusing to let go of what you WANT to be true to see what actually IS. And its b/c your pride doesn't want to think you may have been used by this guy. You haven't matured enough to not care about what is past. Its a common stage everyone has to go through at some point in life.

Hope this helps.

[angelique]

Hi Angel. Well, still not sure what else to tell you. Your last response just confirms you want your single experience with this guy to have more meaning than it probably does (to him).

I get the sense you need to believe that 'you aren't the kind of girl guys bang & run', but fact is it happens. Even to 'nice girls'. A certain amount of pride is healthy, but not when it clouds your judgment. You can't change what happened, however much your ego would like to.

I think you are going to have your heart shredded carrying on after this broken man. I think you deserve better than a 'fixer-upper'. You sound like a sincere gal. But its your life, of course. Some people need to learn the hard way when to cut bait. In your case, you are refusing to let go of what you WANT to be true to see what actually IS. And its b/c your pride doesn't want to think you may have been used by this guy. You haven't matured enough to not care about what is past. Its a common stage everyone has to go through at some point in life.

Hope this helps.

I have to laugh. Please read this: I am not a 15 year old little "nice girl", I have years of experience by being "banged and ran away from" (not to sound like a complete tramp). It was my instinctive thoughts in this situation as well, like "Great, another assclown", and it would have been great if it was like that because that's something I know how to handle, and something that would hurt a lot less than this mess.

His friends don't think it's like that, he has said it's not like that, and I know how guys act around me when they have fallen in love with me compared to the charm offensive of those who only wants to use me. Maybe his initial intentions were to have some fun and then leave me, but the guy fell for me, I could tell (even though he tried the charm offensive at first). Maybe because of the chemistry between us, maybe because I "have something he wants" in a codependent way, or maybe because I was hard to get.
It's not wishful thinking, actually wishful thinking would be to think that he had just used me, because then I could comfort myself with him not deserving me, blah blah, and move on. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and my ego has gotten used to it. But with us it was not about the sex (it made him nervous, for crying out loud), I was not crazy head over heels in love with him, we were simply just good together.

But yes, you're right, I do deserve better than a fixer-upper. I can't be with him like he's now for a number of reason, most importantly because I can't respect him - for cheating instead of breaking up, for always choosing the path of least resistance, for acting like a total coward. Because yes, he considered leaving her, but he could never make up his mind and spent months secretly trying to decide which cake was bigger. That much is clear. (When I broke up with him he went back to her with his tail between his legs, trying to make it into
him choosing her over me for the sake of appearances, which makes me respect him even less. Now it's as if he is trying very hard to make me small and insignificant in his mind, to get over me (He doesn't think I want him) or to satisfy his gf's ego. And he obviouisly has a need to "show me" how happy he is now, but to me it seems more like an attempt at covering shame with arrogance. So be it.)

New questions arises in my mind: Everybody keeps saying everybody makes mistakes. His friends say he's a decent guy. How can a decent guy do such a thing and then just go back to being happy as if nothing happened, when he knows how hurt I am? Can decent people just "get lost" and then get themselves back on track like that? I would love to comfort myself and think that he's an ass and will always be one, but...what if I dumped a guy who had a crisis and who really is a decent guy?

[IndiReloaded]

I think I'm going to wait and see what some of the other mature posters have to say about this, Angel. Gigabitch, Vashti and Sonrisa may be able to give you a different viewpoint. Anything I might add would just be repeating myself at this point.

PM them if you'd like a faster response.