Always friend zoned and frustrated!

[sweetkissesforu]

[url=http://www.practicalhappiness.com/avoid-friend-zone-with-women/]PracticalHappiness.com How to Avoid “Lets Just Be Friends” with Women and Never End Up in a Friends Zone.[/url]

[evans]

His intent is not to comunicate. His intent is to show off with something he doesn't have and to seek for sympathy and pity

Ad hominen argument.

[evans]

s.

Thirdly, intelligent people don't need to prove they are smart. Good communication is about using the clearest and most straight-forward words that will work to convey the meaning. Purposefully writing convoluted sentences with pretentious word choices does not reflect intelligence, it reflects self-importance and immaturity.

There is a lack of substantial reason for me to prove my intellect. My writing is convoluted, and has been told by countless others, yet it is my very de facto style of writing which I find it impossible to assume otherwise. This is one of the reason I find it easier to write scientific thesis.

[evans]

PracticalHappiness.com How to Avoid “Lets Just Be Friends” with Women and Never End Up in a Friends Zone.[/url]

How important are physical touches and affections? As far as I'm aware, I do not engage in any form of physical touches with my dates.

How about the frequency of asking her on a date? I tend to ask X girl on a 6 dates over a period of 4 months. I like taking my time so that it leaves me more time to my own personal devices. Could that be an issue?

[red_sparrow]

Lol my BF has autistic tendencies.. his eloquent speech can be annoying as hell. perfect grammar, big words. He memorizes and quotes entire chunks of novels. He rated quite high on the autistic spectrum test, which doesn't mean he has it, but which means he may have qualities. Then again, he's extremely paranoid about himself and his qualities.. its quite possible he exaggerated things.

i almost broke up with him after seeing his test results. I thought 'I'm not going to be with this autistic crazy..' I couldn't bring myself to do it, though. i don't know why... it was hard for me to do it. I, of course, rated quite low on the spectrum, which led me to think: 'normal, emotionally warm, caring girl with crazy emotion-less autistic, fast-talking, restless freak.'

But I just couldn't end it.

I've contented myself with being the 'absent-minded' professor .. and indeed it takes a very absent mind to put up with his talking..

[xxazurexx]

Speak for yourself. I have never "friend-zoned" a guy for being emotionally supportive or warm or caring. I actually don't believe in the friend zone. If I am friends with a guy and he's attractive and single, I would like to date him. If a guy is "stuck in the friend zone" with me it is not because he put himself there by some careless mistake, he is not physically or romntically attractive to me on some fundamental level. I think that is true of most women. It's just that if we like a guy as a friend, we don't want to insult him by telling him the real thing that makes us not interested. So the falacy of the friend zone persists. Odd-looking or socially awkward or clingy guys who are genuinely likable end up as friends with women they like romantically and think that some minor mis-step was all that stood between themselves and happily ever after with this person. When really, there was never a chance that woman was going to date that man.

Excellent post.....and totally agree.

[red_sparrow]

There is a lack of substantial reason for me to prove my intellect. My writing is convoluted, and has been told by countless others, yet it is my very de facto style of writing which I find it impossible to assume otherwise. This is one of the reason I find it easier to write scientific thesis.

My writing is a bit convoluted too

[Take2]

There is a lack of substantial reason for me to prove my intellect. My writing is convoluted, and has been told by countless others, yet it is my very de facto style of writing which I find it impossible to assume otherwise. This is one of the reason I find it easier to write scientific thesis.

But what people are saying is that your writing is fake and show-off, you obviously DO have sufficient reason to try to prove your intellect...because that is exactly what you keep trying to do with the overly complex sentence structure and the overly fancy word choice. And it is obvious that you are NOT acually comfortable with that style, that it ISN'T your natural style-because you don't actually do it right.

That second sentence there, as a case in point. The passive voice in the first clause took you more effort to write and took us more effort to understand than if you had written a more standard active voice clause. That's convoluted, and wouldn't be preferable in any writing venue, technical or scientific or anything else.

De facto does mean in practice, but it isn't used like that. It means in practice as opposed to legally ordained, not as opposed to an ideal. Which makes it seem like you used a thesaurus to find the phrase and chose poorly.

And "which I find it impossible to assume otherwise" doesn't mean ANYTHING. What exactly were you trying to say? It looks like you just strung together 4 "intelligent" words with connecting words and hoped nobody would notice they don't make sense.

This is not writing that would be good in a scientific thesis, and we poor peons are too simple-minded to understand. This is just BAD writing, because it isn't clear or meaningful.

[evans]

But what people are saying is that your writing is fake and show-off, you obviously DO have sufficient reason to try to prove your intellect...because that is exactly what you keep trying to do with the overly complex sentence structure and the overly fancy word choice. And it is obvious that you are NOT acually comfortable with that style, that it ISN'T your natural style-because you don't actually do it right.

That second sentence there, as a case in point. The passive voice in the first clause took you more effort to write and took us more effort to understand than if you had written a more standard active voice clause. That's convoluted, and wouldn't be preferable in any writing venue, technical or scientific or anything else.

De facto does mean in practice, but it isn't used like that. It means in practice as opposed to legally ordained, not as opposed to an ideal. Which makes it seem like you used a thesaurus to find the phrase and chose poorly.

And "which I find it impossible to assume otherwise" doesn't mean ANYTHING. What exactly were you trying to say? It looks like you just strung together 4 "intelligent" words with connecting words and hoped nobody would notice they don't make sense.

This is not writing that would be good in a scientific thesis, and we poor peons are too simple-minded to understand. This is just BAD writing, because it isn't clear or meaningful.

Look, my mental state is really affecting all my coordination and I did not came here for an argument. Assume whatever position you wish but I'm convinced that I really hate the opposite gender. This whole dating game is fked up. There is no algorithm from which certain probabilities and casual effects can be predicted.

[MerryH]

Yes, you're right, you cannot predict what another human being will do. What you can do is improve yourself so that people might find you enjoyable. People are telling you at least one clear, simple way to do that. You won't even consider it. And you hate women. What is the point of your complaining, then? Please answer this.

Oh and while you're at it, please tell us more about this:

I've no qualm cocking the gun and aiming it at point blank in the face of my sergeant as I did once if someone were to overstep the line.

Did you really shove a gun in someone's face? What happened there? Use simple English, please.

[evans]

Yes, you're right, you cannot predict what another human being will do. What you can do is improve yourself so that people might find you enjoyable. People are telling you at least one clear, simple way to do that. You won't even consider it. And you hate women. What is the point of your complaining, then? Please answer this.

Oh and while you're at it, please tell us more about this:



Did you really shove a gun in someone's face? What happened there? Use simple English, please.

There's nothing wrong with me aside from the fact that I hardly adhere to social norms, and even so, this isn't something major or serious to any extend. I know fully well that my inertia to social practices is not the cause of my rejection from girls. These girls whom I've went out with are mere average Jane (no, I'm not on any attempt to be condescending) and it frustrates me so badly as so my constant failure. So what are you suggesting? Improve what? There's nothing to improve on except that I think there are so much guys around who are less real and more capable of playing the dating game than me. She could have been more honest with me from the start instead of wasting my time. Every of the girls I've dated knew I had romantic interest towards them, and if they didn't felt the same way, why can't they make known in a forthright manner, instead of stringing me along with text flirt and rejecting me upon confession. This is total emotional dishonesty. I'm starting to see my relationship with the opposite gender as a zero sum calculation. Its either I be taken advantage of by them, or I vent my anger, as a result of the negative by-product collective experiences, on them. Sure, you might think I'm full of myself, bittern and et cetera, but these are negative manifestation from the many failures. Further, you might think its unreasonable but people like you, I presume are on a constant successful streak with women, and therefore, have never been placed in a position akin to the likes of us. With so many females playing the dating game, I no longer find it difficult to distinguish between what is false and what is genuine.

We went out once after she was attached, and I had to pay for her meals. There is an automatic assumption that she has to pay for her own meals since she is attached already yet she waited for me to foot the bill when the waiter came. I paid not because I am incapable of telling her to pay for her fair due, but because I did not want her to look ugly with people around us. The question still remains "why can't she pay for her own share".

I've been conscripted into the military recently as part of my national obligation. Because of this I've to put on hold my double major. Since then, I've been suffering from major depression disorder due to the authoritarian lifestyle, with my recent fiasco with said girl exacerbating the issue. I did shove a gun and so what? Everyone has temper and my sergeant happened to push my limits at the wrong time. This should be evidently sufficient to prove I am no push over. I'm not a jerk nor an ass hole, but when I'm at my boiling point, people want to stay far away from me.

[MerryH]

There's nothing wrong with me aside from the fact that I hardly adhere to social norms, and even so, this isn't something major or serious to any extend..

Not adhering to social norms is something major, when you actually do seem like you want to be able to relate to people and have intimate relationships. If you didn't give a shit about befriending people or getting laid, then I'd congratulate you and leave you to it. But you're here, on an advice forum, asking for help, right? Are you going to take any of it, or just argue and convince yourself that we're wrong? What's the point of me or anyone else trying to get through to you when there seems to be nothing there?

So what are you suggesting? Improve what? There's nothing to improve on except that I think there are so much guys around who are less real and more capable of playing the dating game than me.

Improve your communication and empathy skills first. Also, people who say that they can't improve anything because they're so perfect are really obnoxious and deluded. Improve yourself. Everyone else does it, so can you. And it's not about other guys, they don't matter.

I did shove a gun and so what? Everyone has temper and my sergeant happened to push my limits at the wrong time.

Here's another thing you can improve about yourself. Your temper. I'm pretty sure people don't like having guns shoved in their face, so you should work on that, too.

People like you, I presume are on a constant successful streak with women, and therefore, have never been placed in a position akin to the likes of us.

You presumed wrong. I am actually a straight female, so I've never attempted any sort of streak with women. Although if I did, I'm certain that I would be more successful at it than you are.

[evans]

Not adhering to social norms is something major, when you actually do seem like you want to be able to relate to people and have intimate relationships. If you didn't give a shit about befriending people or getting laid, then I'd congratulate you and leave you to it. But you're here, on an advice forum, asking for help, right? Are you going to take any of it, or just argue and convince yourself that we're wrong? What's the point of me or anyone else trying to get through to you when there seems to be nothing there?



Improve your communication and empathy skills first. Also, people who say that they can't improve anything because they're so perfect are really obnoxious and deluded. Improve yourself. Everyone else does it, so can you. And it's not about other guys, they don't matter.



Here's another thing you can improve about yourself. Your temper. I'm pretty sure people don't like having guns shoved in their face, so you should work on that, too.



You presumed wrong. I am actually a straight female, so I've never attempted any sort of streak with women. Although if I did, I'm certain that I would be more successful at it than you are.

Social norms like what? What I meant was that while I am repudiate by social pleasantries and traditional practices, I do not engage in any form of practices which are socially retarded. I befriend people on a selective basis; they are people who have depth and not your tom, dick and harry on the street.

What I think you're doing now is conflating my current mental and emotional state with my usual state of affair, where it leads to the egregious assumption of supposing I am unable to enter into an exclusive relationship with my date because I am acting in my current state. Aforementioned, I'm a really good guy but in this thread, I'm venting a lot of justified anger over the course of my failures.

Many people can't stand idiots too. I know I 'm allergic to them. One thing's for sure, I've a high threshold when it comes to maintaining my composure. That doesn't mean I'm immune to anger.

I'll provide you with a third triangulation to see how far you are able to assist me.

1. I hardly talk during dates
2. I don't usually call the girl in question to communicate; preferring texts to verbal communication
3. I take things really slow, and tend to refrain from physical affection (I don't like physical affection)
4. I listen to her issues over text. You might suggest me to make myself scarce but I see no reason why I should deliberately do so. It seems artificial, pretentious and dishonest.
5. I pay for dates.
I care more than I can express.


I fail to see what is wrong.

[Take2]

So...you think you re superior to the girls you try to date. You rarely speak to them in person or by phone. When you text or e-mail, you use lots of big words incorrectly (like repudiate, look it up). You put absolutely no value on emotional or physical connection, valuing logic exclusively. And you dismiss all social niceties as beneath your concern.

Why in the world would ANY woman want to date you? What is in it for her? I have not met a woman, ever, who was looking for a guy to talk down to her, act pompous, make himself look foolish, and refuse to speak to her or touch her. That's going to continue to be an issue for you.

I mean, I am not basing this off of stereotypes of the sexes, even. No HUMAN BEING would want to date someone who won't talk to them or touch them. You really do need to seek evaluation for your autistic tendencies. But you also need to choose-either make your peace with being alone or learn how to interact with other humans and value the societal norms by which those interactions succeed. It is not because they are logical that social norms survive, it is because they facilitate connections with other humans by providing context and meaning to our interactions.

[evans]

So...you think you re superior to the girls you try to date. You rarely speak to them in person or by phone. When you text or e-mail, you use lots of big words incorrectly (like repudiate, look it up). You put absolutely no value on emotional or physical connection, valuing logic exclusively. And you dismiss all social niceties as beneath your concern.

Why in the world would ANY woman want to date you? What is in it for her? I have not met a woman, ever, who was looking for a guy to talk down to her, act pompous, make himself look foolish, and refuse to speak to her or touch her. That's going to continue to be an issue for you.

I mean, I am not basing this off of stereotypes of the sexes, even. No HUMAN BEING would want to date someone who won't talk to them or touch them. You really do need to seek evaluation for your autistic tendencies. But you also need to choose-either make your peace with being alone or learn how to interact with other humans and value the societal norms by which those interactions succeed. It is not because they are logical that social norms survive, it is because they facilitate connections with other humans by providing context and meaning to our interactions.

The word is used just fine. The reason as to why you think I have mistakenly applied its usage is because, I suspect, you're looking at it from a concrete perspective, as to me from a more abstract world view. It is in the same manner how concrete thinker would refer to a composition of people at x point in time and space as "society", whereas, abstract thinkers would defined a composition of people at x point in time and space as a "system".

In any case, from where did you draw the inference that I talk down to her? I have never talked down to any women whom I have date. I tend to dumb myself down when communicating with them. I make effort to communicate. Yes, I do not talk over the phone because its a waste of time and I dislike excessive small talks. I don't see why communication via text is an issue.

Plausibly, issues that which I might reasonably acknowledge is my lack of verbal and physical interaction with my dates. You might argue that physical affection are important, and while that is indisputable, physical affection is not something I can comfortable with engaging when the opposite sex. I intuit that I am only comfortable with the initiation of such acts few months after entering into an exclusive relationship. No one said anything about not wanting to get physically comfortable with them. You're propositioning an assumption which has neither any relevance nor bearing as to my aforementioned information. The onus of proof is on you to prove your epistemic obligation, not me.

I am also puzzle in learning about the transition in behavioral and cognitive patterns in a female who has transited from a state of "single hood" to a state of "being in a relationship". Commonly, there is the imperative that single girls who are being pursued are turn-off by guys who provides to them an outlet for emotional tantrum. Yet however, the equation changes the moment they enter into an exclusive relationship with a guy. Is this purely biological or is it a matter of a manipulative play of dating game? I hardly smile, and tend to fold my arms. How important are body languages? I tend to get girls when I'm half-drunk; that is when my body language are highly sensual and that is also when I get really physical with girls. I'm really trying to get down to the root cause.