Should I stay or should I go? (Very Long Post)

[TablesandChairs]

My opinion: a) she had no control over her ex-boyfriends appearance during the early stages of the relationship; he hasn't been an issue since (I'm guessing). b) I've stupidly given out my number to guys because I wanted to get rid of them (when I was younger and didn't want to hurt their feelings). I'm not sure whether I was intimidated or just lacked assertion but I never intended to date them or even be their friend...that's changed now.

But...

The clincher is the dating profile. No one goes on OkCupid to make friends with guys - that's not what people on those sites are after. Besides, is she that desperate for new friends? Sounds like she has enough male friends. Maybe she was insecure in the relationship at the time...but clearly it's something that will 100% have to stop.

To me, it doesn't sound like she's ready to commit in the full sense of the word; perhaps out of fear. She's creating back-up opportunities (or at least was) should it not work out between you.

Kissing someone while she was away on holiday...you trusted her and that includes trusting her to still maintain her boundaries even when drunk) and she failed. Bonus points for coming clean, though.

Ultimately, which ever way you choose to proceed, you'll need to have a good discussion (hopefully a calm one).

[woody]

Okay. I hear what you were saying to me in my response to your post. Perhaps both you and her are on a learning path about yourselves.

But the dating sites.
and of course, I'd wonder about why she gave her ex your number. I find that odd. Perhaps he was lingering and it was tactical. Who Knows.

But yes, the dating sites. Huh. Hhmmm.(and that's a marge simpson Hhmmm)
Well hey, your there with her. Only the two of you are going to grasp the real mccoy here.
Just, mind your heart and be careful. You really think this ladies got allot of good to her; well it's your life. You'll see what happens right.

[TheEvilJester]

Perhaps 'wouldnt care' is pushing it. I think what I mean is that she wouldn't be as crushed as I was. When she told me about kissing the dude on vacation when she was drunk and partying, I was basically ready to burst into tears, because despite any differences that have surfaced in our 1.5years together, I still had an image of her and our relationship that involved trust and compassion. Although more crass than I, I never in a million years imagined she would do that. I told her that very same thing, and she agreed she never would have thought she'd ever do that, especially to me. She's also so straight-faced and seemingly honest when she talked, not flinching at the confrontation, etc, that it makes it so believable if she denies things.

My point is: she makes it appear that, if she didn't love, care about, or want to be with me, she'd drop me. She's also said point-blank that she is NOT exploring options, that she still does had desire for me, etc, just that it's not in her nature to go there on here own; that it takes some persuading from someone else (me).

If I kissed someone else or cheated, she'd be angry, but she'd probably hear me out and consider staying.

She's very big on 'intent' when it comes to these kinds of things ,and I think what she thinks is that I should trust her word regardless of how it seems, and trust that if something seems off I'll trust her good intentions or straight-up ask if im worried.

Basically ALL of the red-flags are just that: flags. If what she's told me is true, then I would have no issues with staying. The problem is that everything is SO suggestive, but she's SO convincing when it comes to justifying or explaining them.

"Why did you kiss someone, do you want someone else or want to break up"? .. Her: "No, if anything this stupid drunk mistake (that meant nothing) only made me realize more how much I want you"

"Why are you editing a dating profile?"... Her: "I'm saving is JUST IN CASE for the future. Of course i'm not looking for other guys"

....

To sum it up: i want answers. I want to know the truth. I want to know why things have changed, why I feel so much distance, and if it'll ever come back. I'm a super self-aware person, and these questions will haunt me indefinitely if I don't resolve them. And I haven't..

Okay, so now you've really got my dander up, so to speak. (I'm secretly actually a super-intelligent cat. :-P ) The reason for that is you sound a lot like me. I, too, am a super self-aware person to the point of almost torturing myself with these same kind of what if type scenarios. So, take it from somebody who knows how you feel.... If you are having to ask this many what ifs, it is probably for a reason. It's one thing if you can easily say "Eh, these what ifs are just me being needlessly paranoid." That is not the case here. These are some MAJOR what ifs based on actual things she has said or done.

She kisses some other guy (albeit while drunk) and her excuse is at least it made her realize how much you mean to her? Is it just me or does that sound like the same lie a pig-headed womanizing man tells his girlfriend after cheating on her repeatedly?

She's just saving a profile in case you two don't work out? How does that not strike you as the biggest line of complete bull$h*t to ever drip forth from somebody's mouth? But... okay... let's pretend for a minute that actually is the truth...... How is that okay by ANY stretch of even the most whacked out imagination? You are either in a relationship with somebody, or you are not. You don't get in a relationship with somebody and have a "safety net." Oh, I have a boyfriend, but I have this dating profile up in case we don't work out. If you guys became more serious, got engaged, got married.... would she have a dating profile in case you two don't work out?

Again, what you ultimately do has to be your decision. So, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to tell you to leave her. I'm simply trying to tell you not to write off the option of leaving her. Again, maybe there is something we are all not seeing by not being part of it all, but it sure as Hell does not sound to me like she has the proper respect for you that any human being should, much less somebody who is supposed to be your girlfriend.

Do not dwell on the past when things were good and think that is a reason to cling to somebody who doesn't deserve it. Do not cling to the past. I've been there. I know how you feel. It is hard not to think back on when times were good and think there HAS to have been something real to what you saw in the person. But, if they prove not worthy of you, then you are only hurting yourself by sticking around hoping that the person you thought they were is still there.

Again, this has to be your decision. And, again, it could be that it seems a little blown out of proportion when you take these specific examples of your relationship. Just, personally, I don't know. It sure doesn't sound to me like she appreciates you, or likely anybody. Take it from a guy who knows, you are better off with nobody then with sticking with somebody who doesn't treat you with the respect you deserve.

[SnackAttack]

My opinion: a)

We'll definitely need to talk about it, and I suppose I'll see where that goes.

At this point, I'm actually leaning more towards leaving and just telling her that if she actually wants a relationship, my boundaries include not giving your number to guys on a dating site, not signing up for singles clubs, etc.

My gut tells me she'll respond by saying that it was all 'nothing' and isn't indicative of her not being interested in me anymore, and that she wants to stay. Even if she says that now, though, I don't know if I can believe it. When you look at the sum of everything we've/I've been through, there have been so many bad signs of her lack of interest in commitment... and also other signs of a genuine interest in the commitment.

SOOO many mixed messages. I'm actually at the point where I wonder if her ex boyfriend was telling me the truth about their relationship status when we first got together. He was insisting they were still an item, and she denied it saying he was coming back trying to 'patch things up'.

Okay. I hear what you

Yeah the 'giving her ex my number' thing is something I don't understand at all. My instinct tells me it was probably some kind of pressure move from him, "Who was that guy? If he's really not someone you're dating then prove it by giving me his number and i'll find out for myself". That kind of thing.

The dating sites are definitely my main concern at this point.. the past is gone, and honestly there isn't anything I can do about that right now. I just don't know how to bring up the subject without admitting I snooped on her.

Okay, so now you've really got my dander up, so to speak. .

So the kissing on vacation, as she told it, wasn't her trying to confirm her feelings for me, that was just the outcome of what happened: she realized this after doing it. She claimed that the REASON was that some dude was hitting on her best friend and he seemed like a total 'sleezeball'; she also saw him hitting on a bunch of other girls or something, and her best friend seemed into him. My GF, as she tells the story, apparently wanted her friend to stop trying to flirt with this guy but her friend wasn't convinced he was actually a 'man slut'. So my girlfriend pulls him aside (again, her story) and asks him if he likes her friend. He says yes, he does, and my girlfriend apparently says to him, "Ok, so if you like my friend, you wouldn't kiss me right now then right?". And there ya go... I guess she planned it so her friend would see and then not keep flirting him with... my GF claimed that after that happened, she told him, "Well, don't think my friend will be into you now, pretty sure she saw that", and he left.

When she told it, that story sounded like bullcrap too. However, I'm not sure why she'd tell me AT ALL if she wasn't going to tell me the whole truth. Or, if she wanted to make a better story, wouldn't she have? Still it sounds stupid to me...

And yeah the profile thing on her iPad is ALSO a huge thing, and she honestly acted like it was nothing at all. And just so we're clear, i am NOT writing off leaving her at all... in fact I'm leaning toward that, at least in part.

[drleo]

what a you waiting for man run for your life just jump off her train before its to late

[SnackAttack]

As a general update, I was spending time with her last night and she mentioned the singles clubs 100% on her own.

As we were sitting in her apartment, she was checking her phone email and says to me, "What he hell, I keep getting these spam emails from speed dating clubs that I never signed up for. It's been happening for like 6 months".

I tried to play it cool and just said, "Hmm, well you should probably stop signing up for those clubs then babe!" But in a sarcastic/joking kind of tone.

Here's the thing... there's no WAY she's been getting those emails for 6 months, because the site says she's only been a member for 1-2 months...

It seriously feels like she's trying to put information out there to protect herself, as though if I accidentally found something out or saw some kind of subtle suggestive evidence, I'd ignore it because she already breached the subject at a basic level. Now, if I comment on them, she'd just say "Yeah I told you, I dunno why I'm getting them". But I am 99% sure that's BS, because the 'Join Date' for one of those clubs was only ONE DAY before the timestamp on the tablet note which contained the profile she was editing/saving.

It seems more likely that sometime in November, she was feeling unsure about whether she wanted to stay, started editing a profile, got back on the dating site, joined singles clubs, and THAT is where she's at.

I think tomorrow when I visit I'm going to lay everything on the table, and walk away telling her to text me if she feels like having a 'real' relationship... I feel like I'm being totally played, and after 1.5years together, a dog, and countless other memories that I THOUGHT were authentic, it freakin sucks...

[TablesandChairs]

We can call it insecurity or whatever other term...but something is missing for her to be doing all this crap. She's not 18 and this isn't how adult relationships work. Just tell her to cut the crap; people don't sign up to internet dating sites for platonic friend-making. If she gives you that spiel again, I'd simply say 'I can't really continue having a serious discussion with you if you feed me the type of crap not even a 2 year old would swallow'. As for the drunken kissing incident - she put herself in a position where that was a likely possibility; the guy was a sleeze and she basically told him to go for it. I get that alcohol and rational decision making don't go hand-in-hand but on the back of her other less-than-committed actions, you'd be a fool not to wonder.

So, she either wants a fully committed relationship, without soliciting attention from men who want down her pants...or she doesn't. I get that commitment is a risk - but it's one people take without setting up Plan B's. If she gets bored, she can read a book instead of dating profiles. Not that hard.

[woody]

O.p

As I said in my first response to your initial post, (and i'm sorry to say) but she sounds like a manipulative, part predatory, flake who is missing something indeed; and if your wise and can stand a few months of heart ache, she'll be missing you too. Don't get played. She may have some good bits; but any woman who weaves lies like this, well, watch out man, watch out.

Hey, on another note. I'm sorry if I come across rather blunt and one sided but after reading the rest of what you told us, I really think this one's got allot of growing up to do and though there's much a s.o can handle, when 'trust' isn't there at the foundation, well, that makes for a rough road to haul. Question is, how much time are you willing to give it before you cut ties.

[SnackAttack]

We can call it insecurity or whatever other term...but something is missing for her to be doing all this crap. She's not 18 and this isn't how adult relationships work. Just tell her to cut the crap; people don't sign up to internet dating sites for platonic friend-making. If she gives you that spiel again, I'd simply say 'I can't really continue having a serious discussion with you if you feed me the type of crap not even a 2 year old would swallow'. As for the drunken kissing incident - she put herself in a position where that was a likely possibility; the guy was a sleeze and she basically told him to go for it. I get that alcohol and rational decision making don't go hand-in-hand but on the back of her other less-than-committed actions, you'd be a fool not to wonder.

So, she either wants a fully committed relationship, without soliciting attention from men who want down her pants...or she doesn't. I get that commitment is a risk - but it's one people take without setting up Plan B's. If she gets bored, she can read a book instead of dating profiles. Not that hard.

Agreed on the approach. This is basically what I was thinking. Hopefully she'll have some facts to share with me and can actually open up, because I do think we have enough 'good' to have a shot at the long-term, but it really depends on her interest in a committed relationship wherein she focuses on one person.

O.p

As I said in my first response to your initial post, (and i'm sorry to say) but she sounds like a manipulative, part predatory, flake who is missing something indeed; and if your wise and can stand a few months of heart ache, she'll be missing you too. Don't get played. She may have some good bits; but any woman who weaves lies like this, well, watch out man, watch out.

Hey, on another note. I'm sorry if I come across rather blunt and one sided but after reading the rest of what you told us, I really think this one's got allot of growing up to do and though there's much a s.o can handle, when 'trust' isn't there at the foundation, well, that makes for a rough road to haul. Question is, how much time are you willing to give it before you cut ties.

I don't want to waste any more time to be sure. However, I do want to give her one more chance to come clean. If it's not there, then I won't be sticking around.

[dontaskme]

It's like as though she's codependent, if anything she's very independent and capable of managing her life on her own.

Hmmm... I highly doubt she's as capable as you think. The reason why she's seems to manage her life well is that she's got back up GUYS, yes, more than one guy reserved around the corner just in case you two don't work out.

I don't suggest you ask her to come out clean because we have already established that she is a pretty good liar. When you speak with her tomorrow, I suggest you look at her phone and all her text messages without warning so she'll have no time to delete anything and visit all the websites on her phone and computer that she has been checking out. If she refuses, I guess it's up to you what you want to do with the skank.

[SnackAttack]

Hmmm... I highly doubt she's as capable as you think. The reason why she's seems to manage her life well is that she's got back up GUYS, yes, more than one guy reserved around the corner just in case you two don't work out.

I don't suggest you ask her to come out clean because we have already established that she is a pretty good liar. When you speak with her tomorrow, I suggest you look at her phone and all her text messages without warning so she'll have no time to delete anything and visit all the websites on her phone and computer that she has been checking out. If she refuses, I guess it's up to you what you want to do with the skank.

Look at her phone and her messages? Not sure how that's a good solution...

[dontaskme]

Look at her phone and her messages? Not sure how that's a good solution...

Hey, if she's got nothing to hide, why should she mind? Unless you want to still make believe that her BS excuses make sense or you're too scared of what you might discover. Dude,everybody on this forum is telling you that red flags are flying all over the place, you seem to be the one on denial.

Get ahead of her game before she shits on your head.

[SillyOldBear]

Hey, if she's got nothing to hide, why should she mind? Unless you want to still make believe that her BS excuses make sense or you're too scared of what you might discover. Dude,everybody on this forum is telling you that red flags are flying all over the place, you seem to be the one on denial.

Get ahead of her game before she shits on your head.

No man, I'm not 'denying' this stuff. I'm just saying if my girlfriend demanded I show her my phone I wouldn't want to either, because it's kind of weird and forceful...

[dontaskme]

No man, I'm not 'denying' this stuff. I'm just saying if my girlfriend demanded I show her my phone I wouldn't want to either, because it's kind of weird and forceful...

If you drunk kissed a guy, posted a profile on a dating site, and agreed to meet up for happy hours while in relationship constituted cheating. Once you cheat, you give up your rights to any privacy dumbass!

[smackie9]

Alex, I'll take Who's being a doormat, for 500.