Homosexual and Lesbian relations.

[Junket]

I've said this before, humans are the only ones that label themselves, and so stringently.

I bet you plenty of gay guys would have sex with women if they didn't feel like it went against their gayhood.

[Doc Durian]

Sorry Doc... I grew up in a 'family unit' that consisted of a mother and a father... I barely made it with all my marbles... whereas my friend Apollo grew up with two mothers and is a doctor now --- he's not gay, very straight and his wife is as happy as a lark.

I don't think the gender of your parents matters as much as the lessons they teach you.

I don't buy into the whole "raised by homosexuals, turn out homosexual" battle yell, and didn't suggest it.

As for your mother and father, what do you want me to say and how is it relevant to this conversation? You had either a crappy mother and father, or they had a crappy child. Time will tell, eh?

[ecojeanne]

so doc either her parents were crappy or she is crappy....how do you come to that conclusion and what do you base that on? you're just saying it's crappy but we just pointed out that it is natural, are you suggesting we should brainwash them into going against nature? or do you believe it's not natural at all? how is it caused then?

[Doc Durian]

so doc either her parents were crappy or she is crappy....how do you come to that conclusion and what do you base that on? you're just saying it's crappy but we just pointed out that it is natural, are you suggesting we should brainwash them into going against nature? or do you believe it's not natural at all? how is it caused then?

It's not for me to say what compels a biological creature to shun the reproductive actions required to reproduce, call it natural, and then expect special treatment to reproduce or acquire a litter. To me, it's about cause and effect on one hand, living with the outcome of your choices, natural selection, and the rights of a newborn to meet their makers and be raised by them.

As for her parents. A lot of people jump up and down about how poorly their parents raised them. Doesn't make it true. Time has a funny way of changing most peoples minds.

[bluesummer]

I'm really indifferent to the whole thing. I'm not gay, so what gay people do (marry, have children) is of no interest to me. If I had a gay child, I wouldn't treat them any differently.

People are people.

[Aeradalia]

I don't buy into the whole "raised by homosexuals, turn out homosexual" battle yell, and didn't suggest it.

As for your mother and father, what do you want me to say and how is it relevant to this conversation? You had either a crappy mother and father, or they had a crappy child. Time will tell, eh?

It was relevant because you were going at the angle that only heterosexual couples should raise children as opposed to letting homosexual couples raise children, as though one would be better than the other.

My example showed that in my situation (the heterosexual parents) did a worse job than my friend's situation (homosexual parents). So the idea that orientation or the absense of a mother or father figure is somehow the determining factor in how the child turns out is not valid.

Orientation has no bearing on the 'crappiness' of parents.

As for the remark about me being crappy... eh... I guess you had to add a little sting there. It's ok, you wouldn't be the first to have a sadistic streak, and probably not the last.

[Aeradalia]

It's not for me to say what compels a biological creature to shun the reproductive actions required to reproduce, call it natural, and then expect special treatment to reproduce or acquire a litter. To me, it's about cause and effect on one hand, living with the outcome of your choices, natural selection, and the rights of a newborn to meet their makers and be raised by them.

As for her parents. A lot of people jump up and down about how poorly their parents raised them. Doesn't make it true. Time has a funny way of changing most peoples minds.

Rights of a newborn to meet their makers? The concept of 'rights' does not exist in nature... that's something made up by humans. What 'rights' to meet their makers and be raised by them does a cuckoo bird raised by hosts birds have? What of ants that are enslaved by another species of ants?

You're right... it's not true that my parents raised me poorly... I somehow made my mother into a negligent parent who would let her daughter be raped and then call me a liar years later... even slap me for good measure.

Doc, I am not an example to be made of to fit into your comforting statistics. In this case... I disprove your statistics... move on to someone who fits your defense much better.

[Doc Durian]

It was relevant because you were going at the angle that only heterosexual couples should raise children as opposed to letting homosexual couples raise children, as though one would be better than the other.

Actually, I don't care one way or another which type raises their children. It's a common tactic amongst the bleeding heart pro-gay camp to attempt to inject that sentiment onto others who disagree with them, and I won't permit you to.

In all honesty, my issue rests with those who want children but aren't prepared to make them properly. If a gay couple and a lesbian couple decide to nominate one from each to take one for team/produce a child, so be it. The child has a father and a mother. It also has its mothers partner and fathers partner as parental types, although they will never be the childs real parents. More like an uncle or aunt. It's when gay men or lesbian women start "shopping" for children, or sperm, etc.. where I really put my foot down.

My example showed that in my situation (the heterosexual parents) did a worse job than my friend's situation (homosexual parents). So the idea that orientation or the absense of a mother or father figure is somehow the determining factor in how the child turns out is not valid.

As I said before, a child is a biological and spiritual contract between a male and a female. What happens after that is anyones guess. I'm sure there are plenty more gays and lesbians out there who would also raise a child very well, but unless they have biologically produced them and entered into a spiritual contract with the other biological parent, it's an exercise in playing house, much like the concept of homosexual marriage.

Orientation has no bearing on the 'crappiness' of parents.

Care to point out where someone said that?

As for the remark about me being crappy... eh... I guess you had to add a little sting there. It's ok, you wouldn't be the first to have a sadistic streak, and probably not the last.

It's sadistic to notice that you wouldn't be the first who called their parents parenting skills subpar or point out that often it's not the case. There's always more to the story, honey.

Rights of a newborn to meet their makers? The concept of 'rights' does not exist in nature... that's something made up by humans. What 'rights' to meet their makers and be raised by them does a cuckoo bird raised by hosts birds have? What of ants that are enslaved by another species of ants?

Then what of biological entities, if you want to go down this route, who refuse to procreate in order to produce offspring yet demand to have children delivered to them?

We could always go completely the way of the animal kingdom if you like. I would have no problem killing off any other of my species who interferes with my standing of power, my ability to spread my DNA with whom I want, or exhibits biological mutations and needs to be prevented from sullying the gene pool.

I'd love to decapitate in battle a fellow in the supermarket who attempts to take the last 6 pack of Heineken as I'm reaching for it.

I like to think that we're a few steps up from complete animals though. Maybe not as far as we'd like, but it's still something.

You're right... it's not true that my parents raised me poorly... I somehow made my mother into a negligent parent who would let her daughter be raped and then call me a liar years later... even slap me for good measure.

I sense there is more to the story than what you've quickly thrown out there. I can't comment on your situation or your parents situation without more information, and having said that, I'm not interested in knowing about it.

Doc, I am not an example to be made of to fit into your comforting statistics. In this case... I disprove your statistics... move on to someone who fits your defense much better.

I haven't produced any statistics for this discussion. I think stats are misleading anyway. Though I'm not sure what you're on about.

[Petit Papillon]

Ok I like gays but just those which treat their gayness normaly, NOT that they scream: TOLERATE US YOU BUNCH OF STUPID PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE NORMAL (wearing pink shorts ,some colorfull dresses etc.) . They aren`t normal,and the more they fight for it ,the more I dislike them. I have few gay friends and it`s ok, because they act like normal people (maybe a bit gayish but not very much) and that is what I can accept. It`s because I hate radical people .

[Cbrider]

I believe in the rights of children to have a mother and a father, preferably, a biological mother and father whenever possible. It should be an open and shut case with same sex relationships. Being in one precludes having children, but gays and lesbians have been hell bent on acquiring children regardless. On a side note, I disagree with the use of IVF or sperm banks on women who want to become mothers but without a partner.

This exactly what I believe. I have a lesbian aunt, it doesn't bother me in the least. EVERYONE has a right to be happy as long as it doesn't bring harm to others. If homosexuality makes them happy then hats off to them. Children should not be part of the equation though.

[Aeradalia]

Actually, I don't care one way or another which type raises their children. It's a common tactic amongst the bleeding heart pro-gay camp to attempt to inject that sentiment onto others who disagree with them, and I won't permit you to.

You have no authority over me to 'permit' me to do something or not. It was stated earlier in one of your posts... I noticed and merely responded.

In all honesty, my issue rests with those who want children but aren't prepared to make them properly. If a gay couple and a lesbian couple decide to nominate one from each to take one for team/produce a child, so be it. The child has a father and a mother. It also has its mothers partner and fathers partner as parental types, although they will never be the childs real parents. More like an uncle or aunt. It's when gay men or lesbian women start "shopping" for children, or sperm, etc.. where I really put my foot down.

Properly? Who or what is the authority on the 'proper' way of having children?

I suppose "shopping" for children isn't much better than the 'unwanted' children who are conceived and born to impoverished parents, teenagers, and abusive relationships.

As I said before, a child is a biological and spiritual contract between a male and a female. What happens after that is anyones guess. I'm sure there are plenty more gays and lesbians out there who would also raise a child very well, but unless they have biologically produced them and entered into a spiritual contract with the other biological parent, it's an exercise in playing house, much like the concept of homosexual marriage.

Spirituality is a vague term that is intangible and poorly defined, and really doesn't apply here... unless you're pulling from religious concepts. In that case, it becomes more of a religious debate regarding moral concepts, beliefs, and eventually an endless battle of emotions.

It's sadistic to notice that you wouldn't be the first who called their parents parenting skills subpar or point out that often it's not the case. There's always more to the story, honey.

And you take things one step at a time... I realize I'm not to first to notice --- I'm not that young. Though I do respect the older generations with a bit of respect and limited assumptions they have acquired more knowledge than me.

Then what of biological entities, if you want to go down this route, who refuse to procreate in order to produce offspring yet demand to have children delivered to them?

Humans wouldn't be the first animals to make use of slavery.

We could always go completely the way of the animal kingdom if you like. I would have no problem killing off any other of my species who interferes with my standing of power, my ability to spread my DNA with whom I want, or exhibits biological mutations and needs to be prevented from sullying the gene pool.

I'd love to decapitate in battle a fellow in the supermarket who attempts to take the last 6 pack of Heineken as I'm reaching for it.

I like to think that we're a few steps up from complete animals though. Maybe not as far as we'd like, but it's still something.

We are still animals, however it is our more advanced brains and intellect that has changed how we are. The fact we are able to think and reason prevents us from reverting to more primitive instincts, but it doesn't prevent us from essentially being an animal. Humans aren't 'a few steps up from complete animals' we are still animals. We're still driven by our evolutionary advantage and our success has made us quite bored in more advanced cultures.

I sense there is more to the story than what you've quickly thrown out there. I can't comment on your situation or your parents situation without more information, and having said that, I'm not interested in knowing about it.

I wasn't interested in divulging, only demonstrating that you have too insufficient of information to draw any reasonable conclusions.

I haven't produced any statistics for this discussion. I think stats are misleading anyway. Though I'm not sure what you're on about.

All you've produced are opinions... just like everyone else. This topic is full of emotion and not much else.

[ecojeanne]

Ok I like gays but just those which treat their gayness normaly, NOT that they scream: TOLERATE US YOU BUNCH OF STUPID PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE NORMAL (wearing pink shorts ,some colorfull dresses etc.) . They aren`t normal,and the more they fight for it ,the more I dislike them. I have few gay friends and it`s ok, because they act like normal people (maybe a bit gayish but not very much) and that is what I can accept. It`s because I hate radical people .

OMG NO! i adore the dramatic ones, they are like extreme women with their higher high pitched voices and extraordinary dramatic drama. love it

[Junket]

Ok I like gays but just those which treat their gayness normaly, NOT that they scream: TOLERATE US YOU BUNCH OF STUPID PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE NORMAL (wearing pink shorts ,some colorfull dresses etc.) . They aren`t normal,and the more they fight for it ,the more I dislike them. I have few gay friends and it`s ok, because they act like normal people (maybe a bit gayish but not very much) and that is what I can accept. It`s because I hate radical people .

Without radicalism, nothing would ever change.

[Petit Papillon]

Without radicalism, nothing would ever change.

Visit Poland,or no actually, live there for few months. Gays want to control everything, now You can`t even say a joke about gays in a public place cause everything what gays don`t like is called homophoby...Jesus I hate this word... And the truth is, gays are heterophobists, but of course nobody can say that cause politicaly correct is to agree with gays... That`s what I trully hate.


And Eco, I worked with one gay just like You said, and actually it was my good friend We used to sing `Milkshake`at work while me or him were doing milkshake hehehe He was extra ordinary but he didn`t express his gayness to the whole world. He just was a normal gay. And I hate those which are screaming out loud that they are gays and everybody has to love them or die... Just hate them...

I wish I had power to controm peoples minds... I would bring the new world order ,better one, trust me

[vashti]

Although I am very much in favor of homosexual rights, I think Doc has a point about reproductive science being used to create new babies.*

But Doc - how do you feel about homosexuals adopting children that would otherwise have no home? (assuming, of course, they passed whatever emotional stability test that heterosexuals have to pass...)



*To be fair, it should be noted that I am generally not a fan of science intervening in this way for heteros, either.