communication, trust, relationships

[emanresu]

Wow.. so much typing

there's no way in hell i'm reading all of that shit!

LTsk8er - maybe you are too used to the TV. This response is what I meant when I said you may want to be more considerate of your humor. This person obviously has a difficult situation and seems to be being as clear as possible so others can judge fairly.

[King Zarathu]

hi.

i'll try to be as succinct as possible here, though believe that i should be at least somewhat descriptive so you have a reasonable sense of the situation.

i was in a relationship for about 1 yr. 3 mos., that finally ended after escalating frustration and fighting over some common themes. basically, our communication was often hampered by defensiveness and lack of empathy, it seemed. i would like to get a sense of what i could have done better. i'd also like to get some opinions on some scenarios. please bare with me.

early into the relationship (about 1.5 months), she and i went on vacation about 1000 miles away together (drove). she had to get back from where we were in about 1.5 days (and cut time with her sister that she has since "needed to spend extended periods with when the chance is there, even if that means not spending the holiday with you while you're sick after I've already spent a week with her" which i understand, though note the seeming inconsitency) to meet a "friend" she'd met on match.com (prior to meeting me, and she'd seen him maybe once before other than the emails) for a hike. she'd never invited me along for the hike. i figured that was fine since it was early in the relationship, though it seemed curious that we had to drive day and night to get back for her to meet this male friend she'd only emailed and seen once before. does my curiosity seem out of place or disporportionate? she had, btw, called it a "date" a couple of weeks before hand, and later called that a "joke" term she uses for "appointment", though i had never heard her use that term as a "joke" term for other "appointments" - that seemed like a poor choice of words for someone that probably got about 800 SAT verbal and could be an author.

at about 2.5 months into the relationship, when it seemed that we were mutually steady, my girlfriend and i were together one night in bed. i conversationally asked "whatcha up to tomorrow?" (saturday). she said "nothing, you?". we talked about it and other things. a few nights later, in conversation it came up that she went out for drinks with a guy she'd been out with a couple of times before "as friends". i think she had met him on line (match.com) before we started dating. and it turned out she knew she was probably going out with him before the casual "whatcha up to tonight?" conversation. i thought that was interesting and asked why she seemed to feel she had to hide it. she basically just said i was asking too many questions and seeming jealous. does it seem that way to you?

about 3 weeks later, she sent me an email that she was going out with "friends" to a concert (probably pretty late into the night) and was going to help one of the friends with a benefit 5k the next morning at about 5:30 or 6 am. i responded something like "great! good group?" i was admittedly a bit curious about the vague "friends" that came up again. it turned out that it would be with a guy she'd spoken well of frequently in the past, by name, and a friend of his. i thought it odd that she would have been vague about who it was when, by then, i knew him by name. again, does this seem odd to you?

maybe a month later (say, 4 months into the relationship), she told me she was "coming over" to my place for dinner, etc. that night. she never really pinned down a time, but said she would later. later in the day, she emailed me that she just might be staying home to clean, but would let me know once she decided which. she never let me know which, so i assumed she might be cleaning, but still wasn't sure. i called and left a voicemail asking her how she was doing and if she could call back re what she'd decided. no returned call. i called again maybe 1.5 hours later to ask if everything was OK and what was up. no returned call. i was then concerned, so went by to see if everything was ok. no response to knocks. later that day, i finally got ahold of her on the phone. it turned out she'd "stayed over" with a friend (female friend and her boyfriend) because she'd had some drinks. she'd never "stayed over" with friends before, and hasn't since. the friends were only a few blocks away from her place and she regularly walked those blocks with her dog (whom was with her that night) in the past, without any apparent preference for when - day or night. she first said she couldn't have known i was calling, but later said she had her cell with her and it was charged. again, she argued that i was just seeming jealous and she was concerned about my sense of trust and jealousy. by this point, i am definitely wondering what is going on. does that wondering seem irrational or unacceptable to you?

through all of this, she tended to be late (by typically between 10 and 45 minutes). i let the lateness slide for about 2 months, and finally said as levelly as possible, after raising my eyebrows and smiling "it could seem more considerate if you could try to be more on time, or at least call when you think you're going to be late". she got angry and said her cell was all the way in the back seat of her car so couldn't call, and that she was rarely late as it was and that i was sounding VERY condescending. in another instance, she said she'd be by at time A, then called about 20 minutes prior and said she might be as much as 15 minutes later than that. she eventually arrived 35 minutes after the original time (20 minutes after the "15 minute window" she'd suggested), and when i said something like "can you please try to be more conscientious of the these things - it's not like you weren't more than a half hour late", she said she wasn't that late, and accused me of exaggerating. i know i consider the first time i suggest i'll meet someone to be about when i shoot for, and that might be unusual, but didn't feel i was really exaggerating. what do you think?

She generally was reluctant to apologize until hours or days of discussion/arguement, though got better about that and the late thing after months of hashing it out.

She also tended to suspect that, when I'd ask things like "do you think things are ok with us?" when trying to get a sense of whether she might just be slower to warm up to relationships than i am, or that she wasn't sure about the relationship yet e.g., I was trying to "entrap" (her words) her into saying something incriminating. She also said that I have problems with trust (my curiosity about "why 'friends' all the time when I know these people by name, at least, through her talking about them? why am I rarely/never invited along with these 'friends'? is she seemingly blowing me off ('coming over' > 'maybe staying home but will let you know' - no returned phone calls) b/c she's not so sure about things?"). All the while she was telling me there is nothing wrong and she loves me.

She'd tend to argue and turn red, defending her actions every way she could, until I'd get angry and raise my voice, then she'd accuse me of being mean and temperamental. I admit that, after so much arguing and her defensiveness of the above types of things, I could get very angry and frustrated.

I know her mom, widowed when my girlfriend was in middle school, was relatively extremely hard on her with very exacting standards (though maybe not always very consistent, since she'd blow up at her daughter only to take it back later).

At about month 5 or 6, I started telling my girlfriend that I was getting close to the end of my rope with the seemingly invariable defensiveness and fighting, and it would probably break us up if it persisted. When it persisted, I would get so angry I'd tell her "that's it, I'm done with this" sometimes meaning "this fighting", others "this relationship". She'd always take it as "this relationship". The "this relationship" was intended the last few times I'd said something like that (as I was pretty angry and frustrated with the lack of sound communications, or at least progress towards them), though I would talk it out with her later and we'd make up. She now claims that I should never have taken her back the times that I'd reached the end of my rope, but we'd made up.

If you got through this, can someone please comment on the above and let me know what you think? Was it hopeless? Was I unreasonable? Was she unreasonable? Does it sound like there are things in the above that sound like only therapy could help them?

Thanks.

well, my advice to you is this:

sometimes, couples (like me and my own g/f) have a subconcious mind set that FORCES them to argue. however, the POSITIVE that their mind sees in arguing is to be able to make up afterwards, and it's great. did you guys ever end up making up?

the way you explained this, i think she's being unreasonable, and she's avoiding you--which makes you want her more. try just letting her go, don't call her for a few weeks and watch what happens.

[angelk]

Hi,
WOW!You REallY love this girl, besides having all these questions about her behavior. i must say, you are a very nice guy, and very patient too...
there has to be full trust in a relationship, it takes two to make it work, like it takes two hands to clap, it won't make any sound if it's just one hand.....What i saw from your mail, i can see only one mature person who is patiently trying to make a relationship work...She's not being honest to you, when a woman is in love, she should draw the picture clearly to the man, that's one of the way to build a deeper understanding and trust in a relationship...then, slowly become stronger. Not letting the man have more doubts towards her ( you won't feel real love when you have doubts infront of you) it not a fun and happy ride if the picture in this is blurry, and it's tiring don't you think? Also, she shouldn't let you have a taste of your medicine, when she was the one who manufactured it, (what she said to you when you were late) it shouldn't be that way, i know you love her, but she has to learn to be a grown up first before she get in to any relationships, b/c the same situation will happen to her...you need at least a basic communication....she not giving you that, that's what cos the anger, it's not just being late, or meeting with other guys( which she is not suppose to ) and even if she say is her "old friend ", then why can't you meet this "old friend" of hers? It's the whole picture that is not right...that's what i think.
I'm sorry if my msg is not clear to you, i'm new in this writing thing, not very good yet...well, you take care and don't forget to feel good...cheers..