Expectations

[jurupa]

Oh, please. Don't be feminist haters. You men let a few whack-job women label the entire movement.

But that is the thing tho, its not just a few whack jobs. Just look at our court system. Until the famous Duke rape case, a woman could win a rape case by just saying some man raped her with little or no evidence. And the woman that falsely accused the guys from Duke is not facing any prison time even tho I think and many people on the net think she should face prison time. But because the courts cater to females because of the whole feminist thing that women will never see jail time.

[vashti]

What makes you think that is a "feminist" thing and not a "black" (or some other) thing? And no, women would not routinely win a rape case with no evidence.

[jurupa]

What makes you think that is a "feminist" thing and not a "black" (or some other) thing? And no, women would not routinely win a rape case with no evidence.

Because one nothing happened to the girl after the trail. Two the media drop the story as it was done with and the girl lost so there was no reason to continue the story.

[CAM]

...but, back to the original thread for a moment...if men are insisting that their wives work (so that they can get the benefits of buying the mega-mansion or the boat or the other adult toys like fancy cars), then those men are idiots. And, if women are going along with this and working so that the toys can be purchased (or the debt burden refinanced) then the women are not victims of male stupidity...they are equally idiotic for getting involved with the particular guy.

And, I think what I described above happens all the time. Men and women make very bad choices in partners. I know many instances in my own experience where "traditional woman", who really wants to stay home and raise a family, marries the big brash jackass who wants it all...the big house, the big car...all the toys. She thinks that she'll somehow tame him and ends up in a situation where shes out working to pay off the debt that both of them have accumulated through stupid spending and foolishly producing children that they can ill afford to raise.

So, the stupidity goes both ways. But, human nature being what it is and human desire to do less rather than more and today's world egging women on to go out into the workforce rather than do anything around the house....I suspect that my original proposition in the thread is accurate.

In fact, I just went out with a woman who I'd been in communication with for a few weeks. She stopped by my house--modest but very tasteful in one of the best neighborhoods in town--she took one look at the home and the fact that I'd put it all together...she saw the handwriting on the walll (namely, that I was an adult and should she get involved with me she'd have "responsibilities" and there'd be "expectations")....and I never heard from her again. One case doth not a theory make, but look at it as further evidence

[vashti]

In fact, I just went out with a woman who I'd been in communication with for a few weeks. She stopped by my house--modest but very tasteful in one of the best neighborhoods in town--she took one look at the home and the fact that I'd put it all together...she saw the handwriting on the walll (namely, that I was an adult and should she get involved with me she'd have "responsibilities" and there'd be "expectations")....and I never heard from her again. One case doth not a theory make, but look at it as further evidence

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that this is why she didn't continue dating you.

[Converse]

Yeah maybe she thought CAM was a weirdo.

[misombra]

i like to do things. but i don't like being expected to do things. especially at home where i'm supposed to be relaxed.

my motto would be: you do it.

or i'd just run like your last date did.

[CAM]

Yeah maybe she thought CAM was a weirdo.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that this is why she didn't continue dating you.

Well, probably not because I'm not a weirdo...remember, Converse, I'm the heterosexual and you are the lesbian with a tit fetish.

Vashti--good point. Its possible that other things could have impacted her choice. And, let's face it...I didn't call her either; so, it was a mutual thing. But, in terms of the house impacting her...oh, she had ton of questions about who takes care of it, etc. When answering her questions, I kept on saying "Oh, I do that...I do the maintenence...I do the yard work..." You could tell that she wasn't interested in being an adult (yet or ever).

Mis...so this "you do it" philosophy that you have...I suppose that applies to your sexual relations, too. So, your partners masturbate alot When you are at home you want to just relax. Relexation is nice...but one does have responsibilities, too.

[Converse]

Being gay and having a tit fetish isn't weird though.

[Gigabitch]

Maybe if there weren't such a precedent of successful men dumping their wives for girls half their age, women would feel a little more secure about not developing themselves professionally. The society I want to live in would censure such an act, not uphold it as proof of virility.

But what about this, CAM? This is a huge problem. This is a large part of why I have my own career and own my own home- I need the security and I've found that I am the most dependable person I know.

My ex-husband didn't ditch me for a younger woman, but he did become a really pathetic drunk. I spent many years of my life dealing with that. Where would I be now if I didn't have a job? An Al-Anon meeting, probably.

If I'd had a crystal ball back in 1995, I would have turned him down flat, but I didn't. He seemed like a good choice. My friends agreed. My family agreed. There are no guarantees.

So what are women supposed to do when their husband doesn't hold up his end of the bargain?

[TDurden]

I feel like I'm missing something because I don't see where there's anything to debate.

If both the man and the woman are working full time jobs then they share the childcare and homecare responsibilities. If one person is working less then they pick up more of the slack at home and vice versa. If one of the people in the relationship has a problem with that then they're being an asshole, regardless of gender.

[misombra]

Mis...so this "you do it" philosophy that you have...I suppose that applies to your sexual relations, too. So, your partners masturbate alot When you are at home you want to just relax. Relexation is nice...but one does have responsibilities, too.

cam, listen for a second, okay? i said, i like to do things, but not when i feel like it's expected of me.

so yes, if i feel like sex is expected of me then yes, go off and masturbate all you want and leave me alone.

i would rather be inspired to do things like cook, clean, have sex, be faithful, etc. etc. if you can't inspire somebody to do those things, it'll never get done to your expectations.

[CAM]

Being gay and having a tit fetish isn't weird though.

True, it isn't weird. Denying that it is "weird" however is a mental problem.

[Converse]

How is it a mental problem that I like tits? :/

[CAM]

But what about this, CAM? This is a huge problem. This is a large part of why I have my own career and own my own home- I need the security and I've found that I am the most dependable person I know.

My ex-husband didn't ditch me for a younger woman, but he did become a really pathetic drunk. I spent many years of my life dealing with that. Where would I be now if I didn't have a job? An Al-Anon meeting, probably.

If I'd had a crystal ball back in 1995, I would have turned him down flat, but I didn't. He seemed like a good choice. My friends agreed. My family agreed. There are no guarantees.

So what are women supposed to do when their husband doesn't hold up his end of the bargain?

And that is largely society's problem, too. All this individuality crap is a bunch of crap. We as a society should hold men and women to some form of standard. Guys like the one you are describing would a pariah. In some societies, things would happen to guys like that...violent deaths, for instance. I believe they called it "vendetta."

There's something to be said about honor and how vendetta worked into that. See, we're all just individualists here in the West...result, when we win, we win for ourselves. When we lose, we suffer alone. Neither extreme is good.

I appreciate your patience with me, Giga