Advice needed!

[Cain]

You must be paranoid. My husband would believe me if I told him I wasn't cheating because I have a long history of being honest.

Oh come on. It doesn't have to be JUST cheating. What if your husband discovered drugs in your car or somewhere in your house? What if someone slipped some of said drugs into a drink or food item of yours so that you'd fail a test? He'd still believe you weren't using drugs? Would he want to stay with you? Would he believe you weren't cheating when he thinks you lied to him about drugs?

I know you aren't on drugs. I'm just giving an example. Trust can be manipulated. You aren't failproof. My gf and I love each other but we're capable of being broken up as well. It can happen to any relationship.

What if someone focused on your husband? Could he avoid cheating if a perfect 10 hit on him? Don't be so sure. He'd definitely be tempted. Does he have the will power? Would you break up with him if he cheated on you?

[Cain]

So you're suggesting the alternative is for him to keep quiet and hope for the day they break up so he can have his turn? Continue in some kind of ersatz friendship with her? Isn't that what you would call 'devious'?

Shall he do that right up to the day she decides to marry this other guy b/c she never realized her friend had feelings for her?

What if she likes him back but simply never thought that a relationship with him was even an option?

He can let her know he has feelings for her w/out spilling his guts if he's skillful. And if she rejects him at that point, then he can honestly decide if he really wants friendship or wants to move on.

Geeze, the way you guys argue makes me think that you'd shut down the very idea of free will once you've been dating more than a couple months. What is it you are so afraid of?

It's the fact that most guys can't take no for an answer. They don't know how to express their feelings without actually expressing their feelings. I just think that if you didn't get involved with a girl before another guy did, tough shit. You either wait or find someone else. There are plenty of women for this guy to go out with. He doesn't have to try to break up a relationship.

[IndiReloaded]

I
Also, I'm not sure where we are on committment in relationships. I think you have a point of view that a relationship can exist without any form of commitment, where I disagree with that.

Commitment (to me) = an agreement between partners that there is an intention of permanency to a relationship, such that plans for the future can be made with the understanding that both partners will be present in said future.

Exclusive relationships are all the things we discussed, with the idea of *considering the possibility* of Commitment, above. But without any obligation to carry through with such until an actual mutual promise has been exchanged.

Keep in mind these are only my ideas & its how I experienced dating. I have a *really* stringent requirement for commitment. One could argue, however, that's the reason I have a good marriage. BTW, there are committed relationships that exist w/o exclusivity (as far as monogamy goes). Swingers, for example. Tho its my opinion (like yours Mish) that those are unhealthy relationships. But for those who enjoy & can work them, power to them.

[Mish]

Actually, no they couldn't (or at least I wouldn't be the weak link). When there are children involved, there is more to consider than simply your own wishes. If my husband can allow this to happen, then he should go.

It's hard to say Vash. It's one of those things that you don't know until it happpens to you. I personally believe it would be very hard to sabotage your relationship and make you play a role in it because you are very committed. But at the same time with enough skill and knowledge of your relationship vulnerabilities and demolition techniques even that unthinkable is posible. I don't know how it would play out, but as a reference I could point out to a hardship of infatuation you experienced a long time back. You worked through it, but it was hard. This harship could increase quite substantially if someone also had an intimate knowledge of your relationship and how to work both you and your partner skillfully into hard to manage conflicts while seeming completely innocent.

[Mish]

Exclusive relationships are all the things we discussed, with the idea of *considering the possibility* of Commitment, above. But without any obligation to carry through with such until an actual mutual promise has been exchanged.

Okay, I agree with all except the above. I believe exclusivity is automatic once a relationship is agreed upon. Though I suppose, if both parties never have a relationship talk then I view them as simply dating and not really in a relationship. Even if they date for awhile. I see such couples as a fringe minority, since most couples have a relationship talk after a few months of going out since it's ussually enough time to decide whether they want to be together.

[shh!]

Oh come on. It doesn't have to be JUST cheating. What if your husband discovered drugs in your car or somewhere in your house? What if someone slipped some of said drugs into a drink or food item of yours so that you'd fail a test? He'd still believe you weren't using drugs?

Yes.

Would he want to stay with you?

Yes.

Would he believe you weren't cheating when he thinks you lied to him about drugs?

He wouldn't think I lied to him because I don't lie to him, even when it would have been easier to lie.

My gf and I love each other but we're capable of being broken up as well. It can happen to any relationship.

Yes, but you are still very young and don't have kids. Your relationship can't be compared to mine.

What if someone focused on your husband? Could he avoid cheating if a perfect 10 hit on him? Don't be so sure. He'd definitely be tempted. Does he have the will power? Would you break up with him if he cheated on you?

I doubt he would do it, but if he did, nope. I wouldn't divorce him. There would be too much to lose.

with enough skill and knowledge of your relationship vulnerabilities and demolition techniques even that unthinkable is posible.

I doubt it. I can't imagine anyone being worth more to me than my kids, and I am not going to be the one to wreck their family.

[Cain]

Until it happens in your relationship, you don't know how you'd react. You don't know how he'd react. All you can do right now is speculate.

[shh!]

Until it happens in your relationship, you don't know how you'd react. .

Who said it hasn't?

[Cain]

Who said it hasn't?

You've had drugs in your system? He's found drugs in your possession? Either of you have cheated on each other?

[shh!]

Haha! I was talking about the potential for instability. I don't do drugs, and after my last drinking episode, I've given up wine, too.

Of course I can't say for sure he hasn't cheated on me, but I'd be willing to stake my life on it. He isn't the type. And no, I haven't cheated.

[Cain]

That's what I'm saying. It's hard for you to compare one issue of instability with another. Until you actually experience it, you don't know if you'd break things off over it. You may say that you wouldn't now, but you won't know for sure until it happens.

This wasn't meant to be a "I can prove your relationship sucks" thread. I was just trying to agree with Mish that all relationships have the potential for instability and someone can break it up.

The point is: Don't mess with someone in a relationship.

[Mish]

I doubt it. I can't imagine anyone being worth more to me than my kids, and I am not going to be the one to wreck their family.

Love is not unconditional, you said it yourself. There are a few things even you would be willing to end a relationship for (anyone would). Take for instance if you had advance knowledge that your partner is planning to kill you and your kids, how quickly would you be out the door if you knew something like that? That's just one extreme unlikely event. But truth is, there are many events less extreme and more likely. If one has very good knowledge and experinece on how to bring about four horsemen of doom into a relationship (taken from Indi's link) it will be extremely hard to keep a relationship stable.

[shh!]

Until you actually experience it, you don't know if you'd break things off over it.

Oh, no... I'm quite sure I wouldn't. I might stop sleeping with him, but I definitely wouldn't pursue divorce over this.

You guys are getting preposterous with your imagined scenarios. Planning to kill me and the kids? Planting drugs? hahahahahahahahahahah

[Cain]

Oh, no... I'm quite sure I wouldn't. I might stop sleeping with him, but I definitely wouldn't pursue divorce over this.

You guys are getting preposterous with your imagined scenarios. Planning to kill me and the kids? Planting drugs? hahahahahahahahahahah

They are just examples. You act as if your marriage is immune to divorce. Yours, apparently, is the only one. You should write a book as a guide for all future married couples so divorce goes away completely.

[Mish]

Planning to kill me and the kids?

An extreme and unlikely example. It won't happen. But we both know what would be the outcome if you had that knowledge

You may like the thought that you're so committed that you are beyond anybody's influence and your relationship lacks vulerabilities that can be successfully exploited. I personally think your certainty is only based on the fact that you haven't yet encountered someone who can successfully exploit these vulnerabilities and I hope you never will.