What is Love?

[muddblood]

My wife snores so much and so loud that i sleep on the couch downstairs (well, that along with so many other reasons).

[muddblood]

I think you are, but then again, I think I am too and I'm sure so do Steve Jobs, George W. Bush and Muammar Gaddafi.

Thanks. I try to be a good person, but I guess it really depends on others around you - if they think you are a good person.

I meant good in the sense that you care for the other as much as you care for yourself. Of what I've read about you the only part that makes me doubt (a little) is this messing up your relationship with your high school sweetheart.

Too young and too stupid. I guess I knew it'd never work out with her and rather than just end it, I sabotaged the relationship by messing around with someone else (hicky, heavy petting, no kisisng on the lips, no sex). Also I was young and really horny and she want to wait till she got married to have sex, so I had to respect and honor that. Also, I think it was kind of a test of her love for me - to see if she could forgive me; guess not. And so now that I've destroyed one relationship by "cheating," I will never ever do it again, even if I do have an open marriage/relationship.

Now this may sound stoic and cynical, but I am in a emotional mess of my own. For almost four years now I have been secretly in love with someone I'll probably never be with. My common sense dictates that this feeling will fade too some day, but my emotional side is convinced that I could love this girl for centuries.If I ever get together with her, I vow I will work my fingers to the bone every day of the rest of my life to make her happy.

I COMPLETELY understand - this is how I feel about this girl at work. She deserves so much better and given the chance, I'd "work my fingers to the bone every day of the rest of my life to make her happy" just as you would. If these feelings for this other girl have been around for 4+ years, what is stopping you from exploring a relationship with her?

Reading this brought tears to my eyes. Life is so cruel. I hope you'll be happy forever, girl.

Life IS so cruel!! I know you will find total and ultimate happiness.

[IndiReloaded]

Sorry, it's just a very emotional and trying and stressful time and it's really getting to me. I know it's out of the ordinary, that's why I seek help and advice. I tend to get very defensive when people just assume things instead of offering help or advice. No, I am not a teenager (actually twice the age of legal), I do have a job (how else can I pay for my mortgage), troll? Maybe. Muddblood yes I borrowed it from Harry Potter because it fits my lifestyle of 4 wheeling and mountain biking; mud in my blood, hence muddblood. I will try to be more controlling of my emotions and take comments like that with a grain of salt.

No sorry necessary, I actually don't care if someone name calls on the web.

So, you say your story is real. Okay- how about what I said about being married for 15 years and knowing your wife would be entitled to support while she gets on her feet? If you are really that tired of it all, end it. She'll manage. Its not like you are leaving her or your kids to starve in the dirt.

[Jolicoeur]

(...) I sabotaged the relationship by messing around with someone else (hicky, heavy petting, no kisisng on the lips, no sex). (...) I will never ever do it again, even if I do have an open marriage/relationship.

This is pretty innocent stuff, although I'm sure this girl must have been hurt. I guess you have learned enough to be a good person now. (Why do I feel like a priest taking confession?).

If these feelings for this other girl have been around for 4+ years, what is stopping you from exploring a relationship with her?

She is a lot younger than me (> 15 years), she is in a long distance relationship (and I am not someone who breaks up couples), and unless I find a miracle solution (got one, but it is impractical), she's going to stop taking the class I know her from and move abroad. I'll probably never see her again.

Life IS so cruel!! I know you will find total and ultimate happiness.

I doubt it. I seriously doubt it. It would take a miracle and I don't believe in miracles. I'm in such a bad place right now.

[muddblood]

No sorry necessary, I actually don't care if someone name calls on the web.

So, you say your story is real. Okay- how about what I said about being married for 15 years and knowing your wife would be entitled to support while she gets on her feet? If you are really that tired of it all, end it. She'll manage. Its not like you are leaving her or your kids to starve in the dirt.

Why would I make this stuff up?

Support? Since we've only owned our house for just over a year, and probably can't sell it for more than we owe (especially since there is an identical house 5 houses down that is $10,000 less than I owe on my house), I will most likely end up paying the mortgage on top of wherever I am able to live, assuming the courts agree to this. My intent is to buy a cheap townhouse/condo/home with next year's tax return as this would be much cheaper than renting anything. If she did move back to OH with her mom, I'd give her money to live on. I think I need to speak to a lawyer regarding the whole support thing, and perhaps even the whole house thing.

[lahnnabell]

Why would I make this stuff up?

Support? Since we've only owned our house for just over a year, and probably can't sell it for more than we owe (especially since there is an identical house 5 houses down that is $10,000 less than I owe on my house), I will most likely end up paying the mortgage on top of wherever I am able to live, assuming the courts agree to this. My intent is to buy a cheap townhouse/condo/home with next year's tax return as this would be much cheaper than renting anything. If she did move back to OH with her mom, I'd give her money to live on. I think I need to speak to a lawyer regarding the whole support thing, and perhaps even the whole house thing.

Indie isn't talking about the house. She's talking about alimony which is spousal support that she would be eligible for if you decide to divorce. This would enable her to get a new life started for herself without you having to do the work for her.

[muddblood]

This is pretty innocent stuff, although I'm sure this girl must have been hurt. I guess you have learned enough to be a good person now. (Why do I feel like a priest taking confession?).

. I do feel catholic with all this guilt I'm carrying around. Yes my high school sweetheart was as devastated as I was. We were emailing each back and forth for about 2 years, starting in 2008ish, and even met once during that time. She is married for the 2nd time with like 4 kids, and although she has issues in her marriage, she seems happy and that is all that's important. I was finally able to let her go when I realized and understood my feelings for the girl I work with.

She is a lot younger than me (> 15 years), she is in a long distance relationship (and I am not someone who breaks up couples), and unless I find a miracle solution (got one, but it is impractical), she's going to stop taking the class I know her from and move abroad. I'll probably never see her again.

Age is only a number; my wife has a friend who married someone like 20 years older and they've been happily married for 20 years or so. Long distance relationships never work out. Moving abroad may just be a dream of hers and may never happen. Of course, I do not condone breaking up any relationship, unless she is totally unhappy in it, and she tells you this all day everyday (that's what I get from the girl I work with and it really sucks to see her suffer so much). But, if you found this love once, you can find it again. Speaking of love, how do you know you love her?

I doubt it. I seriously doubt it. It would take a miracle and I don't believe in miracles. I'm in such a bad place right now.

If you believe it, it will happen (total and ultimate happiness). I spent the past 18ish years (probably much longer) thinking that, but it's all changed now. If I can change my outlook on life, anyone can.

[muddblood]

Indie isn't talking about the house. She's talking about alimony which is spousal support that she would be eligible for if you decide to divorce. This would enable her to get a new life started for herself without you having to do the work for her.

Yes, I know. Now that I think about, it's not a bad idea - alimony. Still need to talk to a lawyer on that though. Rent here in Denver averages $750/mo and there is no way I could afford my mortgage and $750 or more per month for alimony. I need to schedule a consultation with a mediator and make her go as mediation seems like a much better option (cheaper, pay as you go, one person represents both parties, we both decide on everything, not the courts).

[muddblood]

And to make matters worse, my wife has her masters degree in English and could teach at the college level or as an editor or publisher, making $50,000/year or more. She is not getting a job because she knows she has it made with me.

[IndiReloaded]

Well, she would have to get a job wouldn't she? You aren't trapped. You could arrange an agreement whereby she is paid less as her income goes up, to a maximum period (say 5 years). After that time, your payments end and she is on her own regardless of whether she has gotten herself a job or not. Person can do a LOT in 5 years.

Marriage doesn't mean you take on responsibility for another person's life. That's what being a *parent* means.

[muddblood]

Well, she would have to get a job wouldn't she? You aren't trapped. You could arrange an agreement whereby she is paid less as her income goes up, to a maximum period (say 5 years). After that time, your payments end and she is on her own regardless of whether she has gotten herself a job or not. Person can do a LOT in 5 years.

Marriage doesn't mean you take on responsibility for another person's life. That's what being a *parent* means.

Are you a lawyer(sarcasm, that's me)? That makes a lot of sense! Sorry for the name calling. I sure feel trapped!!! So lets say alimony happens; how is she gonna leave now? Do I get another place for her now, or say here's money find your own place? A couple of my friends say I give her 60 days to get a job or she's off to live with her mom in OH.

And everyone, EVERYONE, says she is not my responsibility. I am having a super hard time convincing myself of that, but the more people that say it (especially complete strangers on some love/relationship forum), the easier it becomes to believe it.

[lahnnabell]

Are you a lawyer(sarcasm, that's me)? That makes a lot of sense! Sorry for the name calling. I sure feel trapped!!! So lets say alimony happens; how is she gonna leave now? Do I get another place for her now, or say here's money find your own place? A couple of my friends say I give her 60 days to get a job or she's off to live with her mom in OH.

And everyone, EVERYONE, says she is not my responsibility. I am having a super hard time convincing myself of that, but the more people that say it (especially complete strangers on some love/relationship forum), the easier it becomes to believe it.

You sit down and you have a serious discussion. You tell her that you're not happy and you haven't been for a very long time. Tell her that it's gotten to the point that you are content to look elsewhere to have your needs met because this relationship isn't what you want. (This does not make you a bad person in any way) Tell her that you would like a divorce and that you've already gotten the advice of a lawyer (definitely do so before you talk to her about your final decision). She will be very upset. She will probably plead with you and ask you why. Be honest. The more honest you are the more she has to face the reality. Don't give her room to negotiate either because she'll probably try to. Then go out for a while and leave her some time to think and compose herself. Maybe even spend the night at a buddy's place or a hotel so that she can really have some solo time and you won't have her badgering you all night. At this point, it needs to be a very business-like decision. You don't have to be cold or cruel, but you do have to be firm.

When my ex and I broke up he did me the courtesy of leaving me alone as I packed my things. I had alone time so that I could scream and cry and I could quietly pack my things in peace.

[HeartIsAching]

I'm going to answer the OP's first post in this thread and ignore everything else:

Love is unselfish - it does not come at a price, nor does it get withheld in strife.
Love is kind and giving - would you do things for that person just because you like to do things for them?
Love is caring about the person you're with at least as muich as yourself. Would you push them out of the way of a bus and take the hit yourself? Would you let them walk away from you if that's what they need, even if it means you'll die inside? Would you forgive them transgressions without rancor, without bringing it up over and over again?
Love is vulnerability - love means the other person has the power to hurt you terribly, yet you trust them not to.
Love is fragile, yet enduring.

[maxmax]

Love is me on a Friday night, alone with Pizza and Ice Cream ...

[Jolicoeur]

she seems happy and that is all that's important. I was finally able to let her go when I realized and understood my feelings for the girl I work with.

It's a good thing that you got closure.

Age is only a number; my wife has a friend who married someone like 20 years older and they've been happily married for 20 years or so.

I agree. I even have relatives that have relationships like that. But how do I convince/seduce a girl that is younger than me? In some conversation she made clear that age difference is an issue to her. She wasn't talking about us, as far as I can tell she doesn't know I have the hots for her. She was talking about some girlfriend whom is stuck in a relationship with an older boyfriend.

Long distance relationships never work out.

I have other relatives that live in different countries and have been married for almost 40 years. For most people this does not work out, but for some this is a perfect solution. The girl I love likes her independence and freedom. Also, in a year or so her boyfriend will finish his studies and come to live with her.

Moving abroad may just be a dream of hers and may never happen.

She has two degrees. Her main won't land her a job. With the other she can only work abroad, where she has to do internships first, which start in september.

Of course, I do not condone breaking up any relationship (...)

No kidding. I even feel guilty just hoping they might break up naturally.

(...) unless she is totally unhappy in it, and she tells you this all day everyday (that's what I get from the girl I work with and it really sucks to see her suffer so much).

In a way, you are lucky. You could at least rescue your girl. There is hope for you. I don't see it for me.

Speaking of love, how do you know you love her?

I've got all the symptoms: I think about her every hour of the day. I get hardly any work done. I have no appetite. I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about her. I don't feel like meeting my friends, let alone meet new people. Sometimes my chest hurt, the typical broken heart feeling, which is just emotional stress (I looked it up). And worst of all I have the urge to wine about my unsolvable problem to everyone. (Sorry about that by the way).

I've been able to subdue my feelings for the past few years, but now I know she is going to leave, they came back with a vengeance.

If you believe it, it will happen (total and ultimate happiness). I spent the past 18ish years (probably much longer) thinking that, but it's all changed now. If I can change my outlook on life, anyone can.

I don't know if I can cope with this feeling for 18 years! I'm not suicidal or anything, but this is agony.

Well, she would have to get a job wouldn't she? You aren't trapped. You could arrange an agreement whereby she is paid less as her income goes up, to a maximum period (say 5 years). After that time, your payments end and she is on her own regardless of whether she has gotten herself a job or not.

Is that a typical settlement in the States? What if she chooses not to work? What if she claims work incapability? Wouldn't a judge allow her to stay in the house and force muddblood to pay forever? In most European countries, the alimony serves to protect the kids. If you get joint custody, the wife gets nothing since the husband is already paying to raise the kids half of the time. The wife (or the non-working parent in general) can claim benefits from the state if she has financial troubles raising the kids. I hear Canada is very social like that too.