New to starting over with dating... Realizing I know NOTHING.

[TheEvilJester]

So, as I've mentioned, I've recently decided to start getting back into dating. Considering how shy I am, I figured my best bet was online dating. As I've mentioned, it isn't exactly like I've had much luck. The vast majority of people on these sites don't take it seriously at all and never message anybody back.

Still, I'm starting to realize I really know NOTHING about dating. As I've mentioned in previous threads, I only ever had one relationship, (got married to somebody who turned out to be the really wrong person, and got divorced a couple years ago) and we started as friends, so the transition to more sort of just happened naturally.

So, I'm realizing I really don't know anything! Like.....

- When is the appropriate time/number of dates to make physical contact? And should it start as just a pat on the shoulder, or do I just go for a kiss on the cheek or something? I'm just not sure how the heck to tell if that is okay, or would be making a girl feel uncomfortable. I don't want to make the girl uncomfortable, yet I also don't want to wait too long and make it seem I'm not interested in her.

- How exactly do you start to make that transition? In other words, you tend to do the brief meet-up as the first "date." How do you know when to start taking it a little more seriously? Is it appropriate just to talk about it? Because one of my big concerns is I will keep seeing a girl thinking we are dating, she will keep seeing me thinking we are just hanging out, and then if I try to kiss her or something, it will make things awkward. So, I'm thinking maybe when I start to think I like her, I just talk to her about it and see if she feels the same way. But, I also don't want to be the type of guy who asks "Can I kiss you" and ruins the magic of it. LOL!

To be honest, part of me is sure it won't ever matter, because I won't ever have the chance to put any of this to practice anyway. But, if I listen to that negative voice inside me, I'll never get anywhere. So, for the first time in my life, I've decided to shut him the Hell up and just go for it. Now.... the problem is I don't know how exactly to do that. LOL!

Anyway, any help/advice anybody could offer would be greatly appreciated. I basically feel like a need a complete re-haul/re-training on how to date. LOL!

[lalalita]

So, as I've mentioned, I've recently decided to start getting back into dating. Considering how shy I am, I figured my best bet was online dating. As I've mentioned, it isn't exactly like I've had much luck. The vast majority of people on these sites don't take it seriously at all and never message anybody back.

Still, I'm starting to realize I really know NOTHING about dating. As I've mentioned in previous threads, I only ever had one relationship, (got married to somebody who turned out to be the really wrong person, and got divorced a couple years ago) and we started as friends, so the transition to more sort of just happened naturally.

So, I'm realizing I really don't know anything! Like.....

- When is the appropriate time/number of dates to make physical contact? And should it start as just a pat on the shoulder, or do I just go for a kiss on the cheek or something? I'm just not sure how the heck to tell if that is okay, or would be making a girl feel uncomfortable. I don't want to make the girl uncomfortable, yet I also don't want to wait too long and make it seem I'm not interested in her.

- How exactly do you start to make that transition? In other words, you tend to do the brief meet-up as the first "date." How do you know when to start taking it a little more seriously? Is it appropriate just to talk about it? Because one of my big concerns is I will keep seeing a girl thinking we are dating, she will keep seeing me thinking we are just hanging out, and then if I try to kiss her or something, it will make things awkward. So, I'm thinking maybe when I start to think I like her, I just talk to her about it and see if she feels the same way. But, I also don't want to be the type of guy who asks "Can I kiss you" and ruins the magic of it. LOL!

To be honest, part of me is sure it won't ever matter, because I won't ever have the chance to put any of this to practice anyway. But, if I listen to that negative voice inside me, I'll never get anywhere. So, for the first time in my life, I've decided to shut him the Hell up and just go for it. Now.... the problem is I don't know how exactly to do that. LOL!

Anyway, any help/advice anybody could offer would be greatly appreciated. I basically feel like a need a complete re-haul/re-training on how to date. LOL!

I think letting the woman take the lead when it comes to physical contact is a good idea, while still showing her that you are interested verbally (A little bit of flirting here and there, being in consistent communication, taking the lead and planning the dates etc). I find that if I'm interested in a man, I touch him. Not to say I make sexual moves, but I'll touch his arm when laughing, purposely ask to see a ring so I can touch his hand, things of that sort. If she's touching you for seemingly no reason, I'd say it's safe to say she initiated physical contact and you can return the same. If she has never put a hand on you, I wouldn't go for touching.

If she's been giving you those little touches throughout the date and she seems to be warmly receiving them from you afterwards, I'd say a nice kiss on the cheek at the end of the night would definitely be in order. A kiss on the cheek can easily turn into a kiss on the lips if the chemistry is there/the moment is right.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a kiss...but in a certain way. I think if you've been on a few dates and communication is consistent and chemistry is there, sending a text like "So I need to tell you, it's been on my mind all day, I absolutely can't wait to kiss you".

[dontaskme]

There are really no rules. It all depends on the chemistry as soon as you meet. If you enjoy each other's company, there is no reason not to kiss on the lips on the first date. Not talking about exchanging saliva or intertwining tongues here. Just a simple kiss.

- - - Updated - - -

My BF, after three dates said, "on our next date, I am going to kiss you", and I said "you better"!

[smackie9]

I kissed my husband on the first date....why wait.

- - - Updated - - -

When anyone asked me if they can kiss me, it's a bub'bye. You have no confidence.

[TheEvilJester]

Thanks, all. I appreciate the advice. I am definitely beginning to think I won't need it, but I do greatly appreciate it all the same. I am beginning to remember why I'd given up on people in the first place, and seriously considering doing it again. I mean, granted I know I can be overly sensitive at times, but I don't think it is too much to ask that once in a while somebody actually messages me back. Or that when I do actually start to talk with somebody, or even wind up meeting up with them, that they make some God damn effort to keep in touch. You know, or at the very least that they just having the f-ing decency to be honest, instead of pretending like they actually have intention of getting together again and then just deciding to pull a disappearing act.

My faith in humanity was hanging on by a thread as it is, and I'm seriously about ready to cut it myself. All this bull$h*t has made me feel so indifferent, and the really sad thing is I like it. I'm so done caring, and I'm so done trying. Sorry to be Mr. Negative here, but I am just so f-ing sick of fake people, and seriously beginning to believe that is all that is left in the world. It isn't worth my time sifting through all the fetid excrement that masquerades as human beings to find somebody who is actually a true, loyal, decent person.

[dontaskme]

Don't lose hope. You just haven't met the right person yet. Sometimes when you're not looking, that's when the right person comes in your life.

Maybe just sit back, relax and take it easy. When it's time, it will come. Good luck.

[Archie]

I have little experience in dating myself, but from what little I do have, it all comes naturally.
I've been on many first dates and almost none of them worked out good, so let me tell you a story.

It was early January, this year, I registered on an online dating site and what do you know, a girl caught my eye, these things happen you know. She wasn't a supermodel, but I thought she was good looking, she looked like someone I'd be comfortable to have by my side. I checked her profile and didn't find any red flags so I was debating on sending her a message. Funny thing is though, I made a slight mistake in my profile and she was the first to message me, saying I should correct the mistake. It was embarassing. But I did fix the error of my ways. But that wasn't the end of it. We kept in touch and after about 50 messages of getting to know eachother, I realized that she's kind of my type, so I just simply, casually asked her out. We met up, it was awkward I won't lie, meeting a complete stranger, we went for a short stroll around the city and walked in a cousy cafe. We talked about our interests, our favorite music, our favorite movies, what foods we like, all that while drinking hot tea. It was a cold evening and the wind was blowing fiercely, so the only good option was to stay inside. The problem however arose, we were both shy and not very talkative and I didn't have any good icebreakers, cause talking about the absurd weather would have been silly, as I had already pointed that out a while before, but it was the only thing that popped in my mind. None the less, I strained my brain a fair amount and came up with something as to not leave a bad impression. After tea, we strolled around the city a little more, it had started raining by then but luckily I had an umbrella with me. We talked about what kind of people we are, are we out there just to have fun or are we seeking something more serious than one night stands. We talked, joked and laughed, and at the end of the date, I took her to the bus stop, cause the weather had turned abysmal and I didn't feel like drinking tea anymore. We rounded up the date and came to the consensus. Should we meet again or not. She said I was a pleasant guy, but we both agreed, that some of our very basic characteristcs just simply did not match. Still, she kissed me on the cheek as a thank you for the date and jumped inside the bus. I was satisfied with that, cause it was true, I didn't lie about myself and I don't think she did either.
Thus concludes my short story.

What I was getting at with it, was that she was a real person who was looking for her other half, but our worlds were too different for us to have a future. Everything we did on the date wasn't something I had written in my master-seduction-plan, everything that happened was decided on the spot. You just have to feel the vibe. I know you can communicate with people, otherwise you wouldn't have been married at all. You have to read the mood and take actions accordingly and at the end of the date, depending on how it went, either ask her if she wants to go out with you again or tell her that she wouldn't get along with your family. If she likes you, she will most likely give you a goodbye kiss, or if she finds you okay but not-good-enough-to-date, she'll just hug you, or if she absolutely hates your face, well, too bad. Just remember your manners, always open the door, pay the bill, don't ask for score, you know the drill.

There are many different kinds of people, golddiggers or chubby-chasers, fakes or reals, You'll never know unless you type in the legendary 100% success rate 1st message phrase: "Yow gurl, how's it hangin'?" and press Send message.

And if you're going to get to know someone from a social group you're part of, It's basically the same, except there's no "send message" button. You don't have to be a guru in dating, just be yourself and the right person, even if she might be 356th one you're asking out on a first date, she will notice the real you and you will, no doubt, notice her.
Good luck to you and let the Schwarz be with you.

[TheEvilJester]

Thanks, dontaskme. I appreciate the kind words and advice. Sometimes it is just hard to believe this. I'm sick of trying when all I will find is fake people who either won't even bother to give me a chance in the first place, or will meet with me once or twice, but never really give me a legit chance and just pull the disappearing act. I'd much prefer if people would grow the F up, grow some damn nerve, and just be honest. As far as I am concerned, if I meet somebody and they feel we didn't hit it off, that is their loss. But, don't go out of your way making it seem like you are interested, and then just disappear. It's to the point where I can't even feel excited anymore about the possibility of meeting new women, so it almost seems like what is the point? Even if I manage to start meeting up with somebody, it is only a matter of time before they just decide to fade away too.

Archie, I appreciate your kind words and advice as well. Problem is, I can't really relate to your story, because nobody I've encountered has the decency to do that. If we get to the point of meeting face to face (particularly after meeting on a dating site) then I would think it is safe to assume that the reason for that is we both see potential in maybe dating the person. So, to me unless there is some glaring reason why I felt like the person is not a good match for me, I'd at least want to keep seeing them to see where it took us. How are you ever going to meet "that special someone" if you don't give anybody a chance. So, even though it would hurt a bit, I would love it if people would just be honest with me the way you describe with this woman. What I don't appreciate is the whole disappearing act. I'm neurotic enough without help (and, yes, I'm working on that). I have a low enough self-esteem without help (and, yes, I'm working on that too). I don't need to be second-guessing myself constantly and thinking "Did I do or say something, or is something just wrong with me?" I've come a long way, and I'm finally able to look at myself and say, there really IS NOT anything wrong with me. (Okay, so there are little things here and there wrong with everybody, but you get my point). That is ground-breaking for me, because I've never really had much of a self-esteem. I don't need people slowly chipping away at what little self-esteem I've finally carved out for myself.

Honestly, it gets to the point where I am just finding hope to be annoying now. I see a new person's profile that seems like she could be a good match so I e-mail her. In the rare case where she actually bothers to message me back, suddenly I have hope again that maybe there is somebody out there for me (not even saying it is necessarily this one person, just that if one person will actually give me a chance, then eventually so will somebody else.) But, the annoying thing about hope is when it constantly blows up in your face. Part of me would rather just give up hope, because at least then there is no disappointment.

[Archie]

My self-esteem is almost nonexistant and I'm not saying this to cheer you up, that's just how it is and no matter what, what you have to do is power through everything, through all the crap that's flying at you. Experience everything you can, even if you want to cry at the end.
I simply gave you the almost perfect example date, but there are many that I'd like to sweep under the rug rather than remember.

I can't tell you how to detect a55holes with long hair and nails, but depending on the answer of a question I would like to ask you, just what kind of girls do you usually notice..?
Cause I don't know if this is also true in the US, but I, for one, avoid girls who would have sexy pictures of themselves (poses, excess cuteness, all that crap), selfies or even pictures that were obviously taken in a club - those are the people you do not want. It's great if the girl, whose profile you're checking out, has some sort of funny picture with her in it. Like her wearing a costume or doing something silly. It's great if the girl is laughing naturally, not making the fake photo smile that we usually put up to look decent, that means she is not ashamed to show her true self. I don't know if this little advice is any help to you, but sometimes it's easy to tell what kind of person you're dealing with based on a picture. Like I said, I don't know what kind of girls you usually check out, but maybe you're checking out the wrong people.

[TheEvilJester]

You know, sometimes I get sick of just powering through crap. I have this uncanny ability to move on, to fight on, to persevere. No matter what life throws at me, it has never been able to make me give up. Some would call that strength. I call it a huge pain in the @$$. Just because I have strength doesn't mean things don't hurt. It just means I can live with it. Frankly, sometimes I am so sick of living with it. How sick is it that I can look at people who have a break-down or something like that and I ENVY them. I envy the ability to just have ENOUGH because at least that gives you the opportunity to know your limits, to take a break, and to hopefully recover and then get back on track. But me, no matter what life throws at me, I just keep on going. Which would normally be great, but sometimes it just feels like I'm going on just to wait to be crapped on by life again. It's kind of like being repeatedly stabbed, gutted, just completely ripped open, and instead of dying you live and keep on going. Does that mean it doesn't hurt? Of course not! You've been shredded to pieces. It hurts more than imaginable. Yet, still I persevere.

I suppose some day it will all be worth it. Still, it's exactly the optimistic view that just p*$$e$ me off about myself, because it feels like just a matter of time before I get stabbed again.

Ugh! Sorry. I'll try to stop being such a Debby Downer.

Anyway, I suppose I wouldn't say I specifically have a "type" per se. I try not to discount any one category because you never know who may be a good match for you if you don't give them a chance. But, admittedly, I agree with a lot of what you say. I am very goofy, so a sense of humor is important to me. So, I'm often very much drawn to the profiles where the gal has a funny picture, or something fun like a Halloween costume, a trip to Disney, etc. Anybody who describes themselves as "goofy" is a big plus to me. That, and I've also always had a bit of a thing for the "girl next door" type, so anybody who gives off those sort of vibes attracts me instantly.

To be honest, I do tend to avoid profiles of women who you could almost describe as looking "too sexy" in their profiles. To me, if they are that overt in their profile, it suggests a few possible things that frankly just don't intereste me. Or if they seem a little too into the bar scene, that is another thing that can turn me away. I absolutely don't mind those who drink even though I don't, and even don't mind hanging out with them. But, if you are into the bar scene so much that it is practically all you do, that is fine for you, but it just isn't for me.

Anyway, point being, I don't think it is necessarily due to the "type" of women I've tried to message. Honestly, I think people just suck in general. Well.... I KNOW people just suck in general.... but I think that has a lot to do with this particular situation, because I think a lot of folks just don't take it seriously in the least.