Violent Crime: Who or what is to blame?

[Gribble]

Well, what do you think? Do we need stronger gun control laws? Do we need to ban firearms? Install metal detectors in our schools, search students?

What's behind this violence? What drives a person to slaughter thirty students? Is society at fault, and if so, what needs to change?

Are children being desensitized to violence by the music they listen to and the movies they watch? Is Doom to blame? Discuss.

[vashti]

Stronger gun control laws? Of course.

Should we ban firearms? I don't know about an all-out ban, but MUCH stricter control on rifles. I don't think the average citizen should have firearms. There should be a better reason than "I want one" in order to be granted a license. And yes, ban all handguns except for law enforcement.

Whose fault? Well, sometimes the parents contribute, but generally I think that these people are simply f*cked up in the head.

Are they desensitized to violence because of movies/video games/music? Probably, but not to the point that would make them do this. This incident was a result of mental illness, IMO.

[Gribble]

I largely agree. Handguns are good for one thing and one thing alone: they can be concealed. They are useless for target shooting. They are useless for hunting. They are poor home-defense weapons. But you can stick one in your pocket and nobody will ever know. They give balls to weak, pathetic wretches.

I think we need much stricter gun control laws. We need to let the kids out of prison who got caught smoking pot one too many times and we need to throw illegal gun owners/sellers/gun thieves in. You get caught with an illegal firearm and your life of freedom is over. No ifs ands or buts.

We need to require that gun owners keep their firearms secured in safes. If you must own a shotgun for self-defense, fine, but if it isn't secured and it's stolen and used in a crime you need to be held accountable.

While I generally agree that people are screwed up in the head, I have to wonder why it seems so many more people are screwed up here in America. Why is it crimes like this seem to be so much more abundant here?

[vashti]

While I generally agree that people are screwed up in the head, I have to wonder why it seems so many more people are screwed up here in America. Why is it crimes like this seem to be so much more abundant here?

My guess is easier access, but it should be pointed out that this guy wasn't American; I think he was only here on a student visa and was Korean, so we can't really blame OUR society, except for the easy access to firearms. (At least, not THIS time.)

For the record, I agree about letting pot-smokers out to free up room in the prisons for more serious crimes. In fact, I favor ALL drug legalization with regulation. It would generate a lot of money for law enforcement if drugs were taxed.

[Gribble]

So he was foreign? That's interesting. I had heard he was Asian, but I assumed Asian-American.

I wrote a research paper on drugs a few years ago. It's appalling how many people we throw into prison for using drugs and how much money we waste on this "War on Drugs". You know, the government doesn't even allow our scientists to research drugs. They barely get to scratch the surface. Most of what we know about drugs is untested bullshit straight from Uncle Sam's ass. If you ever get the chance search a periodicals database for drug related crime and you'll be shocked at what you find. If I remember correctly the US has more people imprisoned purely for drug related crime than all of Western Europe has imprisoned for crime period.

[vashti]

I don't know if you are aware, but my husband works for a forensic crime lab, so I know all about the amount of time, money and manpower that is invested in putting drug addicts in jail. I also know how big the backlog is in the firearms department because they are vastly shorthanded, while there is a huge number of people (whose time might be better spent) working in the narcotics section. Firearms cases are sometimes dismissed due to lack of manpower to test weapons (to look for links to other crimes) before the cases go to court. How dumb is *that*??

[cheeze_guy]

makes u think u could get a way with a few murders... muahaha


just kidding! I love you!

[Gribble]

By the way, I just read in the Washington Post that he immigrated to the US as a child. It doesn't specify at what age he immigrated, but there's a good chance he was a product of American society.

Really, Vash, your hubby works in a crime lab? He gets major cool points for that. You know what the sad thing is? The media's not going to take any of what you mention into account. Oh, they'll look for a scapegoat, but they won't even consider questioning our drug policies. Maybe they'll use this tragedy to rally against immigration. That seems to be the trend these days.

[vashti]

Immigrated as a child? Hmm.. that must be the latest news. The last I heard, he was here on a student visa. Of course, that was late last night.

[Junket]

I could understand a ban on semi-automatic handguns.

But not on revolvers, or semi-auto rifles, or on shotguns.

Wouldn't keep them off the street, but whatever.

[anachronistic]

i think that the main cause of violence is childhood. i'd give a more detailed statement, being that i personally know people who are violent and ****ed up right now, but I really don't see any point in discussing any of it with you, since you seem to be so narrow-minded about gun control.

[Gigabitch]

Some countries with lax gun control laws have very low rates of gun violence. IMO, if somebody wants to hurt a bunch of people, it's not because they have access to a gun, but because they are ****ed in the head.

If I wanted to kill a bunch of people, not being able to get my hands on a gun would not stop me.

However, I do think people should be required to register guns like cars (meaning they'd have to renew every year, and if moving to another state would have to have them inspsected) and that everyone should be required to keep them much more securely locked up. I have a handgun. It has a trigger lock on it, and it's kept in a locked box. My daughter does not even know that I have it. It is clean, maintained properly, and only taken out for practice every couple of years.

[Gribble]

I'm not as narrow-minded as you might think, Lilwing. I own a .38 snub-nosed revolver. If I stick it in my back pocket you can't distinguish it from a wallet. I have a breach-loader 12ga. shotgun and a 20 gauge pump. I also have a .22 lever action Winchester and a .22 semi-automatic scoped Remington. I grew up with guns. I've been using guns since I was literally a toddler.

Please, expand our minds. If you have an opinion share it. What are your views on gun control? What's wrong with kids today?

Giga, I agree with you mostly. I was actually listening to a retired cop on the radio this morning. He was talking about how he'd spent time in the Philippines and how there were guns everywhere but next to no crime. However, we live in a violent society. Something isn't right in America and I would feel more comfortable if it were harder for people to get their hands on weapons that make killing easy. If that little shit had turned up in a classroom waving a knife somebody would have brained him and taken the weapon away. That's assuming he would have had the courage to even make such an attempt with anything less than a gun. You so much as glare at a shit like him and he'd whimper and lower his eyes. But you put an automatic in his hands and suddenly the little shit thinks he's a man.

[anachronistic]

I'm not as narrow-minded as you might think, Lilwing. I own a .38 snub-nosed revolver. If I stick it in my back pocket you can't distinguish it from a wallet. I have a breach-loader 12ga. shotgun and a 20 gauge pump. I also have a .22 lever action Winchester and a .22 semi-automatic scoped Remington. I grew up with guns. I've been using guns since I was literally a toddler.

Please, expand our minds. If you have an opinion share it. What are your views on gun control? What's wrong with kids today?

Giga, I agree with you mostly. I was actually listening to a retired cop on the radio this morning. He was talking about how he'd spent time in the Philippines and how there were guns everywhere but next to no crime. However, we live in a violent society. Something isn't right in America and I would feel more comfortable if it were harder for people to get their hands on weapons that make killing easy. If that little shit had turned up in a classroom waving a knife somebody would have brained him and taken the weapon away. That's assuming he would have had the courage to even make such an attempt with anything less than a gun. You look at a shit like him and he'd whimper and lower his eyes. But you put an automatic in his hands and he thinks he's a man.

i wasn't referring to you as narrow-minded, gribble. your contribution to the other thread is well respected by me.

i'll think about posting my thoughts later. right now i'm at work.

[vashti]

i think that the main cause of violence is childhood. i'd give a more detailed statement, being that i personally know people who are violent and ****ed up right now, but I really don't see any point in discussing any of it with you, since you seem to be so narrow-minded about gun control.

Narrow minded? How many victims of gun violence do you know personally? I know three kids and two adults. The kids were all random victims of a single hate crime, much like the college kids murdered yesterday. One of the adults is a cop shot by a gang banger. Does this make me biased and "narrow-minded"? You bet your ass it does. It also makes me angry. When you live in a big city, gun violence is a very real problem and all-too prevalent, unlike it would be for people living in small towns like you, where gun violence is a rarity. So do you care to "enlighten" me?