am i being ditched here for a guy?

[miSSleepy]

I've been friends with this girl for 8 years, and she's always been a very down-to-earth, no-nonsense girl, but always VERY withdrawn ... even to this day I know next to zilch about her. I only know what I speculate from her behaviour: that she's insecure and bases her self-worth on how she looks and how much her possessions cost.

She's had boyfriends in the past, and it's always sort of been "we'll hang out, but i'm seeing my bf at so-and-so etc etc" ... in other words, she'll make time to see me around him, but still we hung out.

I'm generally OK with this sort of behaviour, I can understand it during the honey-moon period, usually it wears off. It wore off for me ages ago and I'm almost always free to see friends.

The guy I've known for a bit over two years ... not a CLOSE male friend, but still a part of the group I'm in. Anyway, boy meets girl, boy and girl like each other, 2 days after they're a couple (mind you, it took me a month to extract this from her because she kept denying that anything was going on, but it was always so BLATANTLY obvious).

I've seen her ONCE since, for a couple of hours. It's been around 3-4 months. She works, yes, 9-5 mon-fri ... but she did before too. I know she sees him, and I know she has had days of work.

I'm not jealous of anyone, I'm just wondering whether I should put up with constantly playing second-fiddle and being the "when-I-don't-have-a-boyfriend" friend.

[vashti]

You sound jealous.

Have you tried to make plans with her? If not, you should.

I don't know that you need to be upset about this. One person can't possibly meet all your needs. She is obviously the kind of friend you will get together with only once in a while. I think your disappointment comes from expecting something she isn't prepared to offer. If you want to keep her as a friend, you will need to change your expectations, and if you enjoy hanging out with her from time to time, I would really try working on that. I would rather have a little of something good than none at all.

[TheSphinx]

Are you friends with her because of the enjoyment you receive from the time you do get to hang out, or are you friends because of the amount of time you hang out?

People and their priorities change, but it's up to you to determine what values you deem necessary in your friendships.

~Sphinx

[miSSleepy]

Yeah I know I sound jealous, Vash
Maybe I am, to some extent, subconciously. It's just that I never have before in situations just as this. Like I said, her boyfriends have come and gone and I've ALWAYS come second to them ... it has never bothered me. Maybe it's different now, I suspect, because I know him... have known both of them for longer than they knew each other (no I have never had any feelings for him, at all).
I was just thnking back, wondering: where DO I stand with her? Maybe she sees me as something inherent in her life, whereas a bf is more likely to leave? I dont know.


And I HAVE gotten in contact with her and asked her what she's doing, asked her to give me a buzz when she's free. I haven't been sitting on my ass waiting for her to call

Sphinx: I'm friends with her because I like her, because of the enjoyement of time we do spend together.

[GrkScorp]

I'm not jealous of anyone, I'm just wondering whether I should put up with constantly playing second-fiddle and being the "when-I-don't-have-a-boyfriend" friend.

Welcome to the world of being a guy-friend.. (hey, at least it's one step above emotional tampon!)

I'm just kidding.. but I know what you mean.. I understand.. and it sucks to be there..

You have options though!

1. Get more friends.. (I used to be stuck in this situation, which is why I understand how it feels, and I really feel for you..) But when you get more friends, she simply won't matter as much.. whenever she's free, you can hang out.. but if she's not, you have a ton of other people to hang out with.. It's no big deal..

2. (Theory at work).. The theory of Option-1 is "availability".. If it was a male friend who was doing this to you, I wouldn't bother stating this second option (because men are creatures of logic).. but she's female (and females are creatures of sentiment).. In short, she's largely impacted by her human nature.. and human nature says.. (if YOU are constantly available to her around her clock, if she can basically have you on call any time she wants "whenever it's good for her", and if there's zero "cost" for your time.. then she is free to give up time with you to be with others.. the cost of your time is zero, it's free, she can have it anytime).. She'll rationalize it as "Oh, I haven't called misSleepy in a while, it's OK though.. I know anytime I want, we can hang out.. there's no need to call her or hang out.. but if I don't call HIM, he'll get upset, and might not speak to me again, I might lose him, so there's a "cost", so I better call him"..

Notice how the COST, is the "loss of value".. which means that the motivation to call/hang-out is the "fear of loss of value".. If she doesn't feel that fear of loss of value, then she simply won't be motivated to ever pick you over HIM.. You have to make it clear that it bothers you, that it's not acceptable, and that you're getting fed-up (aka, she's really close to losing the value that you provide)

I know this seems very tactful and almost formula-like.. but people are animals.. and like all animals, they are selfish and have their own needs take priority.. And her need is to enjoy the value people can provide to her.. If you provide it at (no fear of loss), but your competitor (HIM) provides some value (even less perhaps) at (some fear of loss).. she will pick him over you EVERY TIME.. It's simple Economics & Psychology.. but if you BOTH give her a (fear of loss), she will have to pick and choose between the two of you in such a way that she minimizes her total "cost" or "fear of loss"..

For the moment, her dominant strategy is to simply cater to HIM, (because giving him total priority over you minimizes her fear of loss.. notice if she were to see you just ONCE, it would increase her fear of loss "because she failed to satisfy his cost, even if for just one time")

You need to create that fear of loss if you really value your interaction with your friend.. That way, her dominant strategy will be to allocate time between the two of you (which will most likely be equal, and will minimize the total fear of loss)

NOTICE: This can get nasty.. YOU and HIM can quickly find eachother playing tug-of-war via HER.. by creating a larger fear of loss to gain leverage over the other (in essence, competing for her time).. When this happens, the "cost" will exceed the benefit (value) at some point.. in which case, the person providing more VALUE will triumph.. She will abandon the person with lesser value.. Don't take it personally.. (it doesn't mean you don't have value to offer or that she's a bad person, it's just human nature)

[bohemiandonut]

Damn I really wanted to throw in a "think she doth protest too much" here.

Anyway, this:
"Maybe she sees me as something inherent in her life, whereas a bf is more likely to leave? I dont know."
Is probably spot on. I have a bad habit of completely abandoning everyone I know when I'm in a rs with someone. And yes, I expect them to be there for me when I come crawling back... which I always do.

Is that a problem for you, Missy? Girls are SO weird.

[misombra]

my very best friend moved over to the other side of the country to be with this guy she met.

i was 23 or 24. that was rough.

i still miss my friend .

[Gigabitch]

I wouldn't describe your relationship with this girl as a friendship. You are casually acquainted. She doesn't confide in you and doesn't put much effort in your direction. You're a convenience. I've had friends like this in the past but I don't any more. It's a waste of time trying to be friends with a male-identified woman.

Revise your expectations, miSSy.

[miSSleepy]

Yeah that's pretty odd ... an 8 year old acquintance
she calls me "one of her best friends", which is sad on her part.


I guess I'll just see her as an acquintance then.

[vashti]

Since I started nursing school, my very best friend has had to take a back seat. I haven't been able to maintain the kind of contact I would like. Fortunately, when we DO get together (which is a rarity) we are able to pick up just like old times.

The question is: could you count on her to be there when you need her?

[DoesntMatter]

What is your relationship status sleepy? Maybe you and her can go on a double date

[thuthy]

I wouldnt be very happy if this happened to me either.
Looks like to me she is using you for someone to hang out with when there isn't anyone else around and as soon as something better comes along you're left behind. Not a very good foundation for an open honest friendship.

[miSSleepy]

Since I started nursing school, my very best friend has had to take a back seat. I haven't been able to maintain the kind of contact I would like. Fortunately, when we DO get together (which is a rarity) we are able to pick up just like old times.

The question is: could you count on her to be there when you need her?

To answer the question, probably not.

A similar thing happened to my BEST friend. She moved to another state for university. We see each other a total of 2-4 days every 6 months ... but there has NEVER been a time when i thought that things were wrong. We pick up like nothing happened at all, and she's always available to talk to.

What is your relationship status sleepy? Maybe you and her can go on a double date

Yeh, our boyfriends are friends, a double date would be really cool and i have alluded to it, but no one has bothered to take me up on it.

[vashti]

To answer the question, probably not.

Well, that is all you really need to know. It tells you exactly how much emotional investment you should put into this relationship. I generally think it should be in equal amounts.

This doesn't mean you have to cut her out entirely. Just limit your emotional investment and expectations to protect your own psyche.