Awesome boyfriend, terrible manners.

[loveward_bound]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum but in serious need of some advice, any advice and full honesty is appreciated.

I've been with my boyfriend for almost a year. I love him to death, he is a wonderful friend, will be there for me no matter what, makes me laugh, is very passionate and driven and we have all the same goals in life. Before him I only ever had relationships that lasted for 3ish months because I'd never met anyone that fit any of these categories. When I started dating this particular person I was blown away by how strong my feelings were for him. With my track record I honestly never thought that I would fall in love and I was []< this close to giving up just before I met him.

But there is one particular thing about him that really grates on me. He has many annoying habits that I just let go because they're not that important to me but him and I were raised very differently and this has meant that he hasn't had the same sort of manners instilled in him as I have. Funny thing is his table manners are fine, he is a very tidy person and cleans up after himself. He isn't a loud chewer or anything. It's just that he doesn't seem to have a very strong grasp on social ettiquette. To give a few examples - he always serves himself food / drinks before offering them to someone else, if he goes to get himself a cup of tea or a drink he rarely offers to get anyone else one, he rarely apologises when he accidentally hurts someone unless he agrees that he was at fault, for example we were entering a store the other day and I was following behind him, we had to enter through the security gate and he pushed it open but let it swing back in to my leg, when I said that it hurt he just stared at me. I spoke to him about it afterwards and he said he wasn't going to apologise because it wasn't his fault. That was the first time we ever had a conversation about social ettiquette. That day he also answered a phone call from his dad when we where on a date, despite having a previous conversation with him about this being an issue and to this day he still lets the door close in my face when he walks through it first.

He also has a tendency to, when we're doing things with his friends, agree that we'll do things without checking that I'm ok with it first. He tends to make decisions for the both of us without asking me and it always makes me feel a bit powerless and a bit controlled. I've also had issues with being left out of the loop and feeling like I was being dragged around. I usually have to ask him a lot of questions to finally get the information out of him that i needed. I don't feel like I should need to pump him for information to work out what i'm doing with my day and i resent finding out that he's agreed for us to do something with his friends on a spur of the moment without consulting with me first.

And he never refers to us as "we", if we're going out somewhere he'll always say to his friends "i'll be there at...
or "I'll see you soon...". I'm not sure why this last one bothers me so much though, he says I'm reading in to it too much and mabye I am.

The reason I'm asking for people's opinions on this is because of how much it does effect me, if I'm right to be bothered by this and if there's anything that I can do about it. When it does happen I spend ages thinking about how it makes me feel when he isn't considerate of others and how he may be perceived by others because of it. Keeping in mind that the above examples are only a couple of the behaviour issues but they mostly effect our relationship. I don't want to be too hard on him because he is a good guy and just doesn't know about these things. I know his intentions are good and i'm confident of how he feels about me but these issues do make me feel a bit lousy about our relationships. It's enough to say "you know how i feel about you" but actions speak a lot louder than words.

I guess I should add that we are in a long distance relationship. He lives with friends about 4 hours away from me and we visit each other on the weekends so we do have to make the most of the time that we have together.

If people can give me their opinions on this, if I'm being a spoiled princess then let me know. If you want more information then i'm happy to know about that too. I have a very over active mind and tend to dwell on things a lot and I also, like most people, have self esteem issues that can effect a relationship but that I'm trying hard to resolve. He means a lot to me and I really want to make things easier. We have been fighting a lot, although he considers it not to be, and I would like to find out a better way to handle things or to see things from a different perspective.

Sorry for the long post

[twinrexes]

OMG, that's the guy I'm married to, lol! Look, this stuff is truly annoying and you have every right to take issue with it. But it's not a deal breaker. I found over the years that the guys who were super smooth and had impeccable manners were often that way becasue they got so much proactice in how to please women. They were players, in other words. Here you have a guy who would move mountains for you but is socially clueless. I'll be frank, it's not easy to change that stuff. But it certainly doesn't mean he doesn't love you.

[jtr]

First, let me say that you are a classy, down to earth lady, that surely deserves better. My God, had I treated my wife this way, we'd have never been married! Let me assure you that you are certainly NOT being over-demanding! From what I can tell, you must REALLY like this guy for some weird reasons, and you're hoping that someday he'll change. Am I right? Guess what? I hate to drop this on you, but the answer is: He won't!!! From what I can see, he's extremely self-centered. A huge no-no in any relationship or marriage. And if you're considering marriage, he'll only get worse. Manners IMO, are something you're born with, they're in your DNA. Not even your parents can instill them. The only advice I can give you is: FOLLOW YOUR HEART, AS WELL AS YOUR MIND!!! While I personally don't think this is the right guy for you, from what's been presented, I say see where things go, but be cautious, and don't ever overlook anything that really bothers you. You'll only be fooling yourself. I wish you all the best in you decision making...have a great weekend

[xxazurexx]

He does sound inconsiderate to others and you sometimes....but I don't think it means he loves you any the less than you imagine. Sometimes people just don't think and he probably doesn't realise he's doing anything wrong and 'socially clueless' as twinexes says. Perhaps he was brought up in a household where hospitality didn't exist and I tend to think that the manners we possess, are the manners we were taught as kids....or perhaps it's in our DNA as jtr says.

I don't think it's as bad as someone who may have really sloppy table manners and who makes noises when eating...that would be a for sure deal breaker.

[loveward_bound]

Thanks twinrexes, that was the kind of advice that i needed. My question is though, as I really want to work at this, when is it ok to point out his lack of social graces and when does it just become nagging? I have made an agreement with him that if he does something that I perceive to be not the socially acceptable way to do something then I would point it out when we were at home and in private and that I would not overreact. God knows I'm not perfect, I posess the typical womanly hormones that make me overreact to things and not deal with them in a rational way and sometimes these talks do escalate. I never really know how to bring it up. But on the plus side he does seem to be able to see things from my view. When I first brought it up he thought I was talking about chivalry but when I stated that it's not something that a *man* does for a *woman* it's something that a person does for a person he seemed to understand it better. It's like teaching another language!

[loveward_bound]

I appreciate your brutal honesty jtr. And it's nice to have a guys opinion because it's hard to know how men's brains work sometimes. Especially when I've only previously been in such short relationships. Having said that I have many guy friends and they're all very well versed in the social ettiquette. The thing about this post is that it has confirmed my feelings that I want to continue making this relationship work because despite all this I know we have a bright future together, and if I can't fix it I'm willing to compromise. You can bring it down to the fact that I've kissed a lot of frogs and finally found my (if not socially stunted) prince charming. I like the term "move mountains", I know that that's the way my boyfriend feels about me, he just doesn't realise that these above things indicate otherwise.

[loveward_bound]

"Perhaps he was brought up in a household where hospitality didn't exist and I tend to think that the manners we possess, are the manners we were taught as kids....or perhaps it's in our DNA as jtr says."

I completely agree with this statement. His family are not big on this kind of thing and, although they are all tidy eaters, they are not necissarily the most well mannered bunch. In fact his dad is quite tactless.

"I don't think it's as bad as someone who may have really sloppy table manners and who makes noises when eating."

Too right, I'm glad that I can at least share a meal with him . And he's an awesome cook. <- just slipping that in there. But yes, mess and noise when eating are a huge deal breaker for me. Thanks for your reassurance.

[jtr]

But yes, mess and noise when eating are a huge deal breaker for me.

OMG...are you for real???!!! That matters to you more than in the way he treats you??? Being TOTALLY clueless in how to treat a lady, would be a SURE deal breaker for any woman. GET REAL GIRL! You are TOTALLY smitten by this guy! You still haven't told us what it is about him that you like so much. He must be totally hot and have a 12" cock!!! LOL...sorry you wanted brutally honest...

[loveward_bound]

Fair enough, jtr. I was more thinking along the lines of, if we were on our first date and I didn't know him that well and his table manners were attrocious then there probably would have never been a second date.

"I love him to death, he is a wonderful friend, will be there for me no matter what, makes me laugh, is very passionate and driven and we have all the same goals in life." <- as stated in my first post. He also has a very promising career, similar although not exactly the same interests, is a very active and healthy person, gets along with my family and my oldest friends, is kind and caring and is surrounded by a lot of wonderful friends....and is also good in bed. But sometimes your judgement gets clouded by things that are important to you but are not possessed by your significant other. Like I said. For him I'm willing to compromise because he does many things to make me feel loved and respected, i'm just trying to work out if I *have* to compromise.

[oneandonly]

A friend of mine had a similar issue. It could be extremely frustrating but can be trained albeit a very long process. Manners in DNA, hmm. I very much double that. I think it's more to do with his upbringings.

He sounds like a rock solid bf. It would certainly not be a deal breaker. What he offers as a bf (which may not be learnt and corrected) seems to outweigh those annoying habits of his (which can be learnt and corrected). Learning those basic skills will only make him a better person (as a person not just a bf) so I don't see why he would not listen to you. I guess it would be better if you don't make it sound like nagging though.

[vashti]

You will probably have to let some of this go, but there are a few things you can try...

With regards to the door-holding, jeez, my kids do that, and it drives me CRAZY. You can't necessarily blame the parents - some people just don't get it. You might try correcting this by simply NOT entering somewhere unless he holds the door for you. Just stand outside. He'll get the message. But remember to express extreme appreciation when he remembers to do it. (positive reinforcement) and be sure he sees you expressing appreciation for OTHER people who hold the door for you. If he inadvertently lets the door hit you, then just say "ouch!". (negative consequence)

With regards to making plans you aren't interested in keeping, have him go alone. Not every time, of course, but often enough that he gets the message that you need to be considered when making plans. You don't have to be a bitch about it - just say "oh, I was thinking I would do this today, but you go, and have a good time". If he CARES about having you with him, you should notice some change.

About the "we" thing - eh, I don't think of this as a big deal. I would let this one go. He spends most of his time living as an "I", and this is just a habit, and is (in my opinion) very benign.

Good manners are not a matter of DNA, and they CAN be taught, but just like any other skill, some people are just better at it. Just be realistic about how long it can take to break a bad habit.

[xxazurexx]

Fair enough, jtr. I was more thinking along the lines of, if we were on our first date and I didn't know him that well and his table manners were attrocious then there probably would have never been a second date.

Yeah, that was the lines I was thinking along also....sloppy manners and noisy eating on the first few dates would be a deal breaker.

My ex hubby was a real sloppy eater....but he became this way and after we married for some reason. He'd have more spaggetti bolognese on his face, than he actually ate.....lol and it would make me go 'ugh', but it wasn't enough to leave him. If it had happened on our first date, it would have totally put me off a second date.

[loveward_bound]

Hmm, now I'm dreading the day when my boyfriend becomes a sloppy eater! I'll survive I'm sure.

Thanks for all your advice guys. I don't think that manners are engrained in your DNA either. And I think it varies from culture to culture also. The good news is I picked him up on something today and he was really receptive. I managed to keep it light hearted and he said that he knew that he was in the wrong and apologised. He also agreed to have someone over at my place today without asking me before hand, he did however check with me afterwards which is a big step up from previously. After I said that maybe next time he could ask me if I was ok with it before he agreed rather than afterwards that would be more appropriate. He was ok with this. I think he is really trying. There may be hope yet!

So glad I found this forum, it has definitely helped me to see things more clearly

[HeartIsAching]

Man... you super controlling females are gonna kill me.

Ask the man if he's willing to learn. If he's not, live with it or not. Don't just set out to "train" him. You'll lose him and wonder why.