Major Money Issues

[VincenzoG91]

My ex and I are meeting up today to talk about getting back together. She and I both want to get back together, though I have some reasonable concerns because she cheated on me for a while, and is currently living with that guy, who is also an abusive control freak. I have no doubt that she is ready to leave him, and the way restraining orders get enforced around here, leaving him won't be difficult for her. So I was thinking that this was a done deal and we could get our life together back on track.

However, we had a very serious discussion about her academic and career plans on Friday, and I'm now wondering if I should forget about her due to some major money issues. First, some background.

I'm 45 years old, with an accounting degree, a CPA license, and a great job that I've had for nearly 7 years now. I earn $75K a year before taxes, $52K after taxes. I am saving up money for a down payment on a house this fall, and it will be my first house. I realize that I should have gotten a house a decade ago, but life has thrown me some curve balls. My last two girlfriends (including the one I am meeting tonight) were both poor and needed a lot of help. I've spent $80K in the last 12 years on these women, helping them with bills and car problems and whatever. I spent about $60K of that on the ex that I'm meeting with tonight, who has been a part of my life for nearly 8 years.

My ex is 30 years old, and after 8 years of on-again/off-again college classes, has just 86 hours towards a bachelors degree. She has changed majors a couple of times and transfered schools a couple of times. She originally wanted to be an attorney specializing in environmental law, but has now decided that she wants a career involving nutrition and organic food, whatever that would be. She already has $30K in student loan debt, and the school that she just transferred to will cost an additional $30K per year. And she needs to get another 50 credit hours at that school to get her degree, so it's more like another $50K just for that degree. She wants to live on campus for a year, which would cost another $10K, and she wants to get a 2-year masters degree from there, for another $60K. Because of her high GPA, she qualifies for grants and scholarships that will reduce the cost of the remaining credit hours from $50K to $25K, but the chances of her getting any scholarships for grad school look bad.

So if she just finishes getting her bachelors degree, she will graduate at age 32 with $55K in student loan debt and a relatively useless degree from a very good school. Or she can get an additional though somewhat less useless advanced degree, but graduate at age 34 with $115K in student loan debt. Either way, add $10K for the year on campus.

Alternatively, there is a special scholarship that she could qualify for if she transferred in with a 3.6 GPA, but that would require her to take an additional 21 credit hours at her current school and get straight As. That special scholarship would pay for all of her classes at the place where she wants to get her degree. It's a gamble, but she's a good student. So that would change the math to $40K for the bachelors degree or $100K for the masters degree, plus $10K either way for the semester on campus. Unless the gamble didn't work out because she got a B or worse in one of her classes this summer or next fall, in which case it would be $65K for the bachelors degree or $125K including the masters degree, plus $10K for the year on campus.

I just don't see a clear and lucrative career path for her nutrition degree, so I feel like that student loan debt for the masters degree is going to be like a lifelong vow of poverty for her and drain on my own finances. We both want to live a comfortable middle class life and have a couple of kids, and all that money for the masters degree would be money that we couldn't spend on our kids. I told her Friday that we wouldn't be able to pay for our kids to go to college if she had that kind of student loan debt. I didn't say it, but I also wondered if there would even be time to have kids if she is graduating at 34 and then immediately trying to launch her career. And I suspect that she is the kind of person who will want to become a stay-at-home mom as soon as she has her first kid, so the whole career thing is probably doubtful.

I don't want to ruin her dream, but I think that her plan sucks and I don't want any part of it if she is going to go for that insanely expensive masters degree. The median price of a house in our area right now is $129K, and I'm looking at houses just slightly less expensive than that. I'm planning to do a 15-year mortgage so I can pay it off before I am facing age discrimination in my own career. My dad had to give up accounting when he was in his early 60s because his heart couldn't handle the stress. I've been a fitness freak my whole life, but even I have borderline cholesterol, so maybe I will have heart trouble some day, too. And my mother started having problems with Alzheimers in her mid-60s, so maybe I will be unable to work as an accountant after I'm about 65. I have a strong work ethic and no interest in any kind of early retirement, but realistically, I probably only have 15-20 years of decent income left in me.

And finally, because of the cheating, I am worried that things might not work out some day. She claims that she will never cheat again, but we might end up divorced for perfectly ordinary reasons some day. So the idea of marrying into six figures of student loan debt is intimidating, because I just might not have time enough left to pay it all off. I've heard people refer to student loan debt as "the anti-dowry" and there is something to that.

This sucks. I love her and I want to get back together with her, but she looks like a potential financial disaster to me. I'm going to try to talk to her tonight about just settling for the bachelors degree, and if she can agree to that, I'm willing to take her back and try to make everything work. But if she stubbornly clings to the idea of that hideously expensive masters degree, tonight will be a sad goodbye.

[Nicholas_V]

Obviously you should NOT pay for her degree. Let her get another student loan, scholarship or a job - like everyone else. Vincenzo, I start to worry about you. I think you let yourself be taken advantage a bit too often.

If she wants to be with you and you want to give a chance to this, then you need to be very clear to her that she should expect no financial assistance of any form from you. You need to be sure that she wants to come back for the right reasons.

Having said that, we talked before about this and I think you know my views: I don't think you should take her back.

[pisces25]

Wow... she is lucky to be even getting a second chance from you. They way I see it (and don't get mad at this) I don't think you ready to trust her again for her past indiscretion and quite possibly could be using this money issue to justify not reconciling. IMO if you loved her it wouldn't come with conditions and you would both work on a financial solution that suits you both.

I didn't say it, but I also wondered if there would even be time to have kids if she is graduating at 34 and then immediately trying to launch her career. And I suspect that she is the kind of person who will want to become a stay-at-home mom as soon as she has her first kid, so the whole career thing is probably doubtful.

I would have said this and found out what she thinks of the timing re having kids. It may have given her something to think about and she may have agreed with you that finishing study by the age of 32 makes more sense. She can always further her study later in life.

I hope it all works out for you.

[VincenzoG91]

She has never asked me to help her pay for her degree, although I did buy her textbooks, and at one point, a laptop. Most of the spending came from taking car of her while she was a full-time student, plus there was an expensive year when she couldn't work while recovering from two rounds of foot surgery. My major fear is farther down the road... marrying into her debt, or even just having a kid or two with a woman with massive student loan debt.

I was fortunate when it came to college. My parents pushed me to work and save while growing up, plus I got Pell Grant money. So I graduated in '87 with just $3K in student loan debt. But I know what it's like to pay off serious debt. The same year that Amy was recovering from surgeries, I lost my job and nearly went bankrupt supporting us. Instead, I checked into a 5-year debt management plan and paid off the $40K in credit card debt last June. A few months later, I paid off the $4K that I borrowed from my best friend.

I never used to let anybody take advantage of me, just these last two girlfriends. Maybe I just got sentimental in middle age, or because I am so ready to settle down and start a family. If I leave Amy, I will be back to square one. I don't want to just marry some woman with a biological clock going off, but I don't have too many years left for the dating scene.

I should try to get back to sleep. Worrying about large sums of money gives me insomnia. Which reminds me, I expect to lose my current job in two years. Business is going really well, but the investors want to sell the business in a couple of years. If we are bought by another company, they will probably get rid of myself and the CEO and just absorb our operations into the parent company. So I will be hording money even after I buy the house.

[pisces25]

You are worrying about a lot of things that haven't happened yet. Which is completely normal but futile. What if she divorces me, what if I lose my job (don't worry so much about this, you will find another), what if she wants to wait to have kids, what if I am in huge debt, what if I can't find someone else, what if I get too old to have kids. What if, what if, what if.

What if you give her another chance and your relationship is beautiful and loving, based on mutual respect and the attitude that whatever you face you will face it together? What if you just focus on what is happening around you today and trust that the future will take care of itself? When you learn to appreciate this moment now, for what it is, you are doing the best possible thing for your future. Without even realising it.

It is admirable what you are doing by getting yourself into a financially stable position and wanting to set yourself up for the best possible future. But what is the point of it all if you have no-one to share it with? What's to say the next woman that comes along and knocks your socks off isn't in huge financial debt? At your age everyone you meet is going to come with some sort of baggage, whether it be financial, emotional, behavioural. You will be taken on someone's shit regardless. If you do love this woman you will support her future goals. Who know what is going to happen? She could get pregnant next year and not continue with college. She could cheat again in two months time. You could have a terrible accident and she becomes your full-time carer. As you can see there are maaaany 'what ifs'.

Try to focus on what is happening right now and leave the worrying about the future for when that actually comes. The future we often plan for and have in our head doesn't turn out like that at all as life is ALWAYS going to throw a curve-ball.

[Nicholas_V]

I disagree with ^ . Yes, you can start the "what if" game, but facts are facts and so are probabilities. No one can tell you of course what will happen tomorrow - or what is going to happen to you two if you get back together. But you are right to worry about these issues. Here is another factor that you need to consider - her employment. Does she want to be self-employed (i.e. open her own practice - in which case she will need working capital to start up with, and I understand she is assetless)? OR she would rather work for a hospital/clinic - in which case she could end up getting a job anywhere in the country.

And I've told you that I am not convinced that people can change when it comes to certain attitudes - whatever the circumstances. She was once dishonest to you, so she has this mindset. It's like liers - once they get used to it, they keep doing it because it comes easy and natural to them.

I understand that you feel you're running out of time, but I think locking in yourself with the wrong person, can make you more miserable than staying single. And besides, you don't know what happens tomorrow. If you really cannot help yourself with this, at least wait a bit longer - let her finish her studies, get a job and then reassess the situation.

[sookie6]

I think you are totally ready for the next step in your life: starting a family while she is objectively not ready to be a mother not even to be an adult.

You can't save her and if she even became the mother ofyour kids you'll have her as a major charge on top of the children.

Maybe 15 years was also to much of a gap between the two of you...you were too much of a protective figure in her life while you let her be nursed by your care and money.

Think about what you want for you in the next few years and choose accordingly.

[oneandonly]

..... locking in yourself with the wrong person, can make you more miserable than staying single....

Can't agree more!


From that epic revelation of her being a pathological liar, I thought you would've booted her out of your life by now. But you've been contemplating to take her back? That's simply astonishing!

3 main things that a couple most argue about are known to be Sex, Money and Children. It's good that you are thinking it through again. On top of her being a compulsive liar, now there are 2 more potential issues lingering. Is she worthy of that much?

There are good women out there. They may have one or two baggage of their own. Whatever that it, it will be EXTREMELY hard to beat your ex's!

Put your dating profile back on and start dating other women!

What would you have said if some newbie had posted exactly the same issue on here? You give sound advice on here so I am wondering what your sound self would have said had you stepped back and read it as a stranger.

[VincenzoG91]

Good points from everybody. Yeah, anyone I get involved with from here on out will have baggage, and at least I am familiar with Amy's baggage. It's also true that her plan might change anyway. Two years from now, maybe her biological clock will be going off and she would rather start having kids than continue with the expensive masters degree. If I just focus on the present, I'm facing the prospect of taking back an unfaithful and apologetic lover who just got admitted to an expensive and respectable local university with a scholarship that pays half of her tuition.

When I meet with her tonight, I guess that I should re-focus on the critical questions, about goals, values, and feelings. Ultimately, this is about two people figuring out if they have a future together, so the most important part is the people. It's impossible for me to step back and be unbiased about this decision, and in a way, it would be pointless to be unbiased. It would be like reviewing an album with ear muffs on, or evaluating a piece of art while wearing a blindfold. Without emotion, it wouldn't make sense to have relationships at all, just business partnerships. But I can't ignore the basic facts involving time and money.

I will keep an eye on this thread today. I will be meeting up with her in 9 hours, so I've got that much more time to think.

[sookie6]

You should also keep in mind that living with this guy certainly means she is sleeping with him on a regular basis..just thought I would add this t remind you what a beautiful young woman can get away with while in a relationship with a more mature man who is too afraid to go out in the world and look for someone potentially less attractive but more stable and settled.

I've always thought Amy is child trapped in a woman body..you should try to date your equal.

[VincenzoG91]

You should also keep in mind that living with this guy certainly means she is sleeping with him on a regular basis..just thought I would add this t remind you what a beautiful young woman can get away with while in a relationship with a more mature man who is too afraid to go out in the world and look for someone potentially less attractive but more stable and settled.

I've always thought Amy is child trapped in a woman body..you should try to date your equal.

She claims that she's been sleeping on the couch over there in recent months. I know from past experience that she is capable of withholding sex for months. I also know from previous experience that other women have a similar ability to withhold sex.

Part of the problem is that I can't date my equal. My equal would be a 45 year-old woman who probably can't have kids. The other problem is that most of the women I have dated don't consider their equal to be their equal. When I dated women at my age and income level, they tended to look down on me as inferior. I got sick of that crappy attitude.

[Nicholas_V]

There are some good women out there man, but granted it takes longer to find one you can click with -don't convince yourself, however, that you're running out of choices. You're not.

And there is a whole range of ages between 30 and 45 - you don't need to shift from the one end of the distribution to the other.

I think you should take a step back and reflect for a moment on the situation - as objectively as you can.

[sookie6]

She claims that she's been sleeping on the couch over there in recent months. I know from past experience that she is capable of withholding sex for months. I also know from previous experience that other women have a similar ability to withhold sex.

Part of the problem is that I can't date my equal. My equal would be a 45 year-old woman who probably can't have kids. The other problem is that most of the women I have dated don't consider their equal to be their equal. When I dated women at my age and income level, they tended to look down on me as inferior. I got sick of that crappy attitude.

OMG Vincenzo..of course women can withhold from sex but can this guy? What's in it for him if he is not at least sexually active ith Amy...all your arguments are always so particular...yu don't really want to be convinced do you?

As an example, I know a 45 year old divorcee who met his new partner 2 years ago on a dating website. She is now 40 and they are having a child together...so you see...don't jump into extreme conclusions just because you don't want to date more mature...I think you just like having the upper hand in a relationship (not that you take advantage of your partners) but you like being the responsible adult...except that to be parents it takes 2 adults.

Another example is The French president's second wife who is expecting at 43...so really give us a break...wome can have children till very late nowadays...so maye you should start looking for someone suitable before YOU turn 50.

[vashti]

Vincenzo, I am so sad to see one of my favorite male posters even *consider* doing anything for a woman like this. She's going to bleed you dry! And for a *nutrition* degree? Is the idea of dating someone more age appropriate really so distasteful for you that you would rather stick with this one and go broke?

[misombra]

80k is so much money. Its terrible how you've squandered it on this bitch. People are starving and homeless in this world and she's getting a free ride from you. You're crazy for hanging with her. There are people who will come into your life anf ruin it if you let them and she is a glowing example. Along with money I'm sure you've also lost friends and family members and aquaintances have lost respect for you.

I really hope you gain insight soon vinny.