Do you agree or disagree?

[MynameisJesus]

It's not going too well between me and my friends.
I am the only one of 5 buddies who is not in a relationship. They laugh and joke about me being single but I never take offence.
2 of them are in a relationship with very decent girls and the others are total airheads.
My best friend was always a nice and shy guy like me but he fell head over heels in love with a girl I'll call Jenny.

He introduced Jenny to us when we were going out and we all liked her from the start. I told her I'm very happy for both of them and I'm sure they have a great future together. I want what is best for my friend.

In the beginning of the relationship, he found it important that we include her in the group and that we wouldn't ignore her.
So I did. We have nice conversations, as friends obviously.
She added me on msn, facebook etc and we talk every now and then.

After a while, I heard from other friends that my best friend Tom finds that we are "too close" and that he might be getting suspicious about my intentions. It struck me in the beginning but I understood how much he loved her and that he has insecurities. I concluded he was blinded by love. The honeymoon phase.
So I gave in and avoided contact with Jenny.

Last week an other friend told me that he finds it "out of line" that I have his GF on facebook and that we text sometimes.

" Why do you have her on facebook? Why do you need her number? Did you ask for hers or did she ask for hers? What kind of things do you discuss? "
He always asks about the content of out discussions and he gets mad if I ever say something about him or about any relationship stuff. That is "too deep" and way out of line. He finds that I am crossing lines

They all say it is an unwritten rule to never have contact with girlfriends. It pisses me off and it feels like a lack of trust to me.

Where is the line? As friends I assumed they would not have problems with this

[vashti]

People are very territorial about their relationships... I don't think you are doing anything necessarily wrong, but it won't matter if you end up losing a friend you value. Besides, who knows what that girl is saying about the nature of your contact? Some girls LOVE to see males get territorial about them, and she may be encouraging his insecurity. If you care about these friends, just stop talking to this girl without the boyfriend there.

[Wakeup]

The men in the group are your friends and the girls are your friends girlfriends who you are aquaintaces with. Keep it that way. You discussing stuff with their girlfriends when they aren't included is pissing them off and if you're any kind of a friend you will respect them and their wishes for you not to be engaging their girlfriends. You don't have a relationship and so you can't empathize. You are single which is another problem for them. If you had a girlfriend you'd be focusing your time on her and not their girlfriends so much. In otherwords... stop crossing relationship boundaries.. the girls should stop too but I suspect the guys just find it easier to talk to you about that then their own SO.

[MynameisJesus]

The men in the group are your friends and the girls are your friends girlfriends who you are aquaintaces with. Keep it that way. You discussing stuff with their girlfriends when they aren't included is pissing them off and if you're any kind of a friend you will respect them and their wishes for you not to be engaging their girlfriends. You don't have a relationship and so you can't empathize. You are single which is another problem for them. If you had a girlfriend you'd be focusing your time on her and not their girlfriends so much. In otherwords... stop crossing relationship boundaries.. the girls should stop too but I suspect the guys just find it easier to talk to you about that then their own SO.

I find that friendships with women can have value added to friendships that I have with male friends. For example if one asks about my love life I find that some women have interesting insights that men don't have.
I know about the kind of women that like to see their men get territorial but I don't believe these 2 girls have that sort of nature.

I don't question your good intentions but I have a big problem with your line about respect and crossing boundaries. I feel that I am not being respected in our friendship.
I am a virgin and every time we talk about women I feel laughed at and disrespected. As if I am inferior to them. On other topics some don't respect my opinion either.
A woman I know once stated that I have autistic tendencies such as perfectionism and fear of failure. It bothered me but even though I have some tendencies I am not an autist.
I am seeing a coach for my fear of failure and we both know I am not even close to an autist. I am very social and talented

When it bothered me I told one of the friends about it and now he states that I " live in my own world " sometimes like autists do.
Can you imagine what it feels like to have people saying " oh well you just live in your own world " when you defend your opinion? Especially when it is about something deep

It pisses me off. He just walks away when I tell my opinion that doesn't match his. I also clearly stated I wanted to move abroad which I do, but he replied that I just say that to act like someone I'm not.
He thinks I'd rather stay at home with my parents forever. It got to me and I said it was not the case, but still he kept saying I lied.
I experience it as a lack of respect/trust. I would never lie to friends and if they don't take my word it really gets to me.

It's not because they all think I am such a nice guy that they respect me.
And about crossing boundaries. Where exactly is the line? Am I not allowed to be friends with their girlfriends like I am friends with them?
It's not like I am dating them in person

[MynameisJesus]

I don't think you are doing anything necessarily wrong, but it won't matter if you end up losing a friend you value.

At the moment I am losing the value I gave to them because I feel not trusted and disrespected on many surfaces.
I value people based on trust and respect and I don't believe I'm getting any.
I would understand if one of them discussed this with me but I have to hear about it from other people.
I brought it up and then it came out in small pieces

[MynameisJesus]

And to explain the idea behind my confusion, I guess..
I used to have an other best friend but it ended because his GF wants to consume all his time.
During the first months he would always like to do things with me and her together. He wanted me to get to know her and get along with her and there were no boundaries or whatsoever. Because there was no lack of trust which is what I expect from friends. That's how I interpreted it. This situation is completely different and I don't understand why.
I thought we were close friends and they know all about me

[Wakeup]

I find that friendships with women can have value added to friendships that I have with male friends. For example if one asks about my love life I find that some women have interesting insights that men don't have.

Then find girls that are not your friends girlfriend to contemplate life with. You are crossing a relationship boundary as far as they are concerned and if you don't like them not liking it then perhaps you need to back off from thier friendship as well if they are'nt compatible with you.

I know about the kind of women that like to see their men get territorial but I don't believe these 2 girls have that sort of nature.

All men and al women are territorial to some degree. If we were'nt that way, we wouldn't have a word for jealousy.

I don't question your good intentions but I have a big problem with your line about respect and crossing boundaries. I feel that I am not being respected in our friendship.
I am a virgin and every time we talk about women I feel laughed at and disrespected. As if I am inferior to them. On other topics some don't respect my opinion either.
A woman I know once stated that I have autistic tendencies such as perfectionism and fear of failure. It bothered me but even though I have some tendencies I am not an autist.

Well, I didn't think you were autistic, I just thought you were hell bent on being able to do what you want even if it meant crossing other peoples relationship boundaries. Just because you don't think you are, it doesn't mean you are'nt. I meant no disrespect to you when I said what I said, I'm simply stating what I gather from how your male friends are treating you.

I am seeing a coach for my fear of failure and we both know I am not even close to an autist. I am very social and talented

Okay, but what has this got to do with you talking and interacting with your male friends girlfriends?

When it bothered me I told one of the friends about it and now he states that I " live in my own world " sometimes like autists do.
Can you imagine what it feels like to have people saying " oh well you just live in your own world " when you defend your opinion? Especially when it is about something deep

I can't answer that question as I don't know you and I don't know if you are like they say you are. All I know is that you wanted to know if strangers "Agreed or Disagreed." I agree with your friends in that it is their perception of the circumstances, you've discussed it with them and they still don't like you interacting with their girlfriends in the manner that you are so that's really all that you need to know to stop doing it. (if you want to keep their friendship).

It pisses me off. He just walks away when I tell my opinion that doesn't match his. I also clearly stated I wanted to move abroad which I do, but he replied that I just say that to act like someone I'm not.

Are you sure you want to remain these people's friend? It sounds like the make you angry often and that doesn't sound like much fun to me.

And about crossing boundaries. Where exactly is the line? Am I not allowed to be friends with their girlfriends like I am friends with them?
It's not like I am dating them in person

Relationship boundaries are formed between the people who are in the relationship and once you discover that they think you are crossing a relationship boundary of theirs then out of respect for your friend you should back off. Even if you don't agree with the boundary. If you don't then you will be jeopardising your male friendship(s). We don't always get what we want, unfortunately.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Are you initiating contact with them, just responding, or both?

[MynameisJesus]

Are you initiating contact with them, just responding, or both?

I initiate with some. Some have initiated with me.
I don't look for them but I get conversations going when I run into them.
Whether it's in a bar or online via messenger.

I am extremely open towards everyone. It's not the first time someone says I cross boundaries.
Not just regarding romantic relationships but also in relationships with other people.
For example during an internship I was having lunch with a patient and the coördinator said that was " boundary crossing behavior "
That I should be a therapist from 9 to 5 and after that I should not have contact with them under any circumstances.
He said others have a natural feel for such boundaries and I don't. So I guess I don't.
An other superficial friend of mine stated that he found it odd how much personal information he knew about me in the first weeks we met.
I feel very few boundaries in my conversations with people. Some appreciate it and we connect very well, others find it disturbing and back off.

I don't think my lack of feel for boundaries that other people do feel should be linked to any disorder in DSM. People have personalities and everybody is different

[MynameisJesus]

And thanks for your opinion wakeup.
It's not that I don't want to be friends with those guys at all.
I'm just disappointed because we are not as close friends as I thought.
I'll still have a beer with them once in a while but it will remain a superficial friendship

[Wakeup]

I don't think my lack of feel for boundaries that other people do feel should be linked to any disorder in DSM. People have personalities and everybody is different

did someone link your lack of feel for boundaries as a DSM disorder? I don't think it should be linked either particularily if your parents never corrected you for basic boundary crosses as a child. These things have to be learned early in childhood (IMO). In school we learn more about boundaries and (unspoken) codes through courses in ethics.

*Sorry, just curious.

[vashti]

I don't know about all this boundary crossing, but it seems as though you value your friendships with the women over the men. If that is the case, then continue on the way you are. The women will be your friend until their boyfriends make them choose between having them and having you.

BTW - your friends don't sound very nice.

[MynameisJesus]

did someone link your lack of feel for boundaries as a DSM disorder?

Not officially. Some people stated that I have some autistic characteristics, perfectionism to be particular.All therapists I have seen for insecurity issues deny that I am some type of autist.
I believe that I might have ADD. I am highly sensitive and some call it oversensitive. It limits me in my internships if something doesn't go my way.
Reading through the DSM I think every single person can relate to a certain "disease"
Borderline, depression, OCD. Everybody has some of it and it's like they try to put people into boxes. I have a problem with categorizing alternative behavior as a disease