How would you feel about this? Can you relate?

[CreepedOut]

First, throughout my life I have had similar experiences but never this drastic.

I'm not antisocial--i.e. I have nothing against society, nor am I capable of anything negative toward society. I'm not narcissistic--I don't view others as objects, also I am always very respectful towards others.

However at every point of my life, I have made decisions based solely on what I felt was right for me. Don't get the wrong impression, for example in choosing the college I based my decision solely on what I wanted out of a college experience--strong liberal arts program, cosmopolitan environment, commitment to community...etc. I did not look at rankings, nor asked my parents, nor cared what friends or teachers felt about my decision. In choosing my major, I looked at what interested me and what I enjoyed. I did not look to gain financial success, or status, or anything else.

So far, for the most part, my decisions have all been good.

I have a horrible habit of not keeping in touch with people. Basically, if you are not immediately present in my life I will not make the effort to include you in my life. Now here is where things get odd. As class reunions began occurring, I noticed a lot of my former class mates at later stages in their life imitated decisions I had made in earlier points in my life. I sensed an undercurrent of hostility, as for many imitating my decisions did not lead them to where they wanted to go; that is understandable, a decision good for me may not be good for you.

In particular, there are two women who not only have modeled their life after my own in the past but continue to with much frustration.

This may sound counter to what I have written before but I am being thoroughly honest, a big factor in determining my choices is whether I will be better able to help others. I truly enjoy helping others and regularly volunteer. I hope to one day be a foster parent and a Big Brother. A big part of my happiness comes from three sources: learning, music, and helping others. However, I do all of the above with a practical approach of taking care of myself first so as to be better able to take care of others.

The first girl in my opinion is in denial about what she wants out of life. She does a lot of, "self-sacrifice," in helping others which in the end puts her in a worse off position. She will enroll in expensive programs geared towards helping others, only to come out of it massively in debt and knowing nothing more than when she began the program. The reason I think she is in denial, is just from knowing her she has a very natural business oriented mind. She would fit best in a business environment or in creating her own business. However for some reason, she does not want to acknowledge that reality.

Again, I am not "holier than though are," in how I go about living my life. My best friend also pursues his passion, his passion is very clear: he loves making money and the structure and status of the corporate world. We are best friends, which would seem strange given are complete different goals in life, but we can relate because we both pursue our own passions without reservation or justification

The second girl is just really, really creepy. I worked in the east coast for a bit, before moving elsewhere. I have always felt uncomfortable around this girl for some reason. At one point I entertained the thought of becoming a professor, but I backed away from that thought once I really got to know many professors and found many were very odd. Without being a professor, I'm not certain if the many who I met would even be remotely employable. So, I decided not to waste my time on the degree to end up with bad company.

I just found out yesterday, the second girl not only did earn a doctorates recently but for gosh knows how many years she earned her doctorates in a school in an adjacent city from mine--tens of thousands of miles away from the east coast. I feel she literally followed me. For all I know, she may have known where I lived, she may have been around my house...etc. Were she still in my area, I would really look into possible legal options. However, thankfully, she is working back in the east coast again.

So what the helk is going on with these two girls? What the helk is going on with people who cannot decide what is best for themselves?


Thanks for the comments.

[VincenzoG91]

I can't relate. You seem very self-absorbed and pretentious, but then you have this big humanitarian streak. Maybe helping people makes you feel important and superior. At any rate, I seriously doubt that your classmates made major life decisions in an effort to imitate you. It only seems like that to you, because you believe that you live at the center of the universe.

[HeartIsAching]

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

[ctr916]

It could be just a coincidence.

[CreepedOut]

I can't relate. You seem very self-absorbed and pretentious, but then you have this big humanitarian streak. Maybe helping people makes you feel important and superior. At any rate, I seriously doubt that your classmates made major life decisions in an effort to imitate you. It only seems like that to you, because you believe that you live at the center of the universe.

I completely agree with your observation being I am self-absorbed; I think that really is the best way to describe me. Self-absorbed does not have too negative of a connotation, if anything it suggests I'm at the shallow end of the spectrum.

However in regards to pretentious, I'm not certain how you could determine a sense of pretense. Not looking up the dictionary definition, when I think of pretentious I think of someone who makes great efforts to exaggerate their ability but who ultimately has little if any ability. Do you agree with that definition?

If you do, I'm not certain how I have conveyed any pretense. I have written honestly of my observations and I am requesting some feedback--in particular, their validity and their commonality. In no way have I shared any details of aptitude in any specific area. So, please, do indicate from where the pretense is conveyed.

In regards to helping others rationalized as a way of feeling superior, again based on my first post and your own observation that I am self-absorbed that cannot be the case. As a self-absorbed person, I do not see myself nor any of my decisions in relation to society. To reiterate, I do not believe in the existence of community much less society. Regardless of existence, I do not identify or even attempt to identify with society. A desire to feel superior to others automatically implies the acknowledgment, awareness, and concern for the beliefs, ideas and opinions of others. As a self-absorbed person--as you pointed out, yourself--I do not acknowledge others much less their opinions. In short, I really can care less what others think and I think we both agree the evidence supporting my assertion comes from my own first post and your own observation.

Rather, I understand my desire to help others--which I do in various forms of volunteering--as arising from three needs.

The first and primary need is to feel some connection to others. No matter how self-absorbed someone is, we all need to feel a little bit of a connection not necessarily with society as a whole but particular people in society.

The second and incidental need is as an extension of my need for self-actualization. It is fulfilling to feel that your identity, ability, skills are not only valuable to yourself but are also valuable to helping others actualize themselves.

The above two ideas are based on Maslowe's Hierarchy of Needs. The final one arises more from Gestalt Theory of Psychology.

A mature and productive method for coping with frustrations caused by perceived injustices, wrongs, or inequality is to channel that frustration towards trying to solve the problem. In attempting to solve the problem, the frustration dissipates because you feel--whether true or false--you have some control in mediating those injustices, wrongs or inequality.

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.

[ctr916]

Would you consider the possibility of some mild forms of paranoia?

[CreepedOut]

Would you consider the possibility of some mild forms of paranoia?

That question is interesting--I will explain why at the end. My understanding of paranoia--if wrong, correct me--is the presence of anxiety and fear due to incorrectly (well erroneous, more likely) perceived threat of harm, persecution and the like. Now if that definition is acceptable, I'm not certain how it would apply.

The first girl I mentioned is a friend; I do not associate her with anything remotely harmful. I mean, it is sad to see her make bad decisions and suspecting that until she is willing to accept what she really wants from life her life may be a series of bad decisions. I find that disheartening but not at all dangerous.

The second girl, well she really, really is creepy. Someone indicated the possibility of coincidence, you are taking the idea a step further by suggesting not only is it a coincidence but also I am the one with a problem. The interesting part I mentioned above.

Ok, lets take the hypothesis of coincidence first. I'm going to start with the assumption of 100% coincidence and work from there. Evidence supporting 100% coincidence is if she was originally from the state I am in, if the doctorate program was very prestigious, if she had mentioned consistent interest in the program, if she had mentioned consistent interest in the state, if she had family in the state, if she was very familiar with the state, if her attitudes and outlooks were consistent with the state.

None of the above evidence is present. From what I know of her, she is not from the region, does not have family in the region, the program is not prestigious, never mentioned interest in the program, her attitude is in no way consistent with the state. In a sense, there is very little to support even a random presence in the state--remember, coincidence requires a probability to support.

Now, lets look at it the other way around. What is the probability a person with no family in a state, with no familiarity of the state, with no incentive to be in the state, with no expression of interest to be in the state, with a personality that is starkly in opposition to the general attitudes of the state would randomly be in that state? I'm not certain, but without reason and assuming pure randomness I think the likelihood is very, very small.

The bigger issue here between you and the other poster I replied to is that there exists an undercurrent of a value judgment. The value judgment being first: it is wrong to feel someone is creepy. To feel someone is creepy is a reflection of a malformed psychology.

This idea tends to be conveyed in the saying, "never judge a book by its cover." However if that saying was true, than the publishing industry would not spend thousands of dollars hiring people to design books covers. Instead, all books would be bound in the same, single color with only the title and the author distinguishing the books. This is not the case, obviously. So, not only do we judge books by their cover, we should judge a book by its cover.

If someone feels creepy to us, maybe that feeling is the exact opposite of a malformed psychology--it is the sign of a normally functioning psyche. The conscious mind may not have a reason to justify the feeling or the conscious mind, due to undercurrents of values, may be suppressed from justifying the feeling; the subconscious, not suppressed and operating differently, compensates for the failure of the conscious mind by creating the feeling to signal an abnormality--the creepy feeling. The subconscious could be picking up on body language, signals, experiences, all coming together in the realm of instinct indicating someone is creepy as a method of preservation.

Also, the previous poster begins with self-absorbed (which to me is not a big deal and which is probably the case) then moves onto pretense (which again is not justified because there is never a statement or claim made) then finishes off with helping others must be a form of power.

The thinking goes:

person is self-absorbed therefore the person is bad or at least has bad tendencies. Why?
because the person is bad, I must find a reason to dislike him so he is pretentious. Why?
finally, a self-absorbed person being bad in addition to being pretentious which I dislike cannot be capable of altruism or helping others for good and likable reasons, because that would contradict my entire value system and world-view.

I have a different value system. I am self-absorbed, but I do not find this wrong. Why should I not be self-absorbed? I mean this is my life, I am entitled to take my life seriously. Why must I sacrifice attention to my life towards attention to the life of society? In my opinion, it is not only fine to be self-absorbed but optimal. I am responsible for myself, I enjoy myself in productive and nondestructive ways, I love my life above all. Is it not irrational to move the focus away from myself when I am the owner of myself, entitled to my life, rights and freedoms?

[KingZ]

I love how one of the very first things he says is that he's not antisocial or narcissistic.

[DannyH]

Why exactly do you think these women are following in your footsteps? Not the fact that they have done some of the same things as you but why they are copying you? Oh and not why you think they are copying you.

[CreepedOut]

I love how one of the very first things he says is that he's not antisocial or narcissistic.

You make a claim, implying it is obvious and observable, but offer no support for your claim. If your claim is obvious and observable as you imply, please substantiate it.

In my defense, I am neither antisocial nor narcissistic because among other reasons: 1) I obey laws, knowing I am not above or an exception to any law 2) I hold myself to a high ethical standard, knowing dignity and integrity are important not just for me but for the sake of personal responsibility 3) Unless poor behavior suggests otherwise, I treat everyone with a sense of dignity, consideration and understanding deserving of every human being. 4) While I am selective in who I love, I treat those who I love with supreme care, affection, and deference. 5) For those who I love, I am known as being dependable, loving, and when reasonable self-sacrificing.

In fact, I can argue that you are exhibiting negative behavior towards me akin to a form of passive violence. Assuming psychologists are correct, alienation is a form of violence. Your statement, unsubstantiated, is written as if is a generally acceptable, understood principle of mainstream society directed at an exclusive groups of society who will naturally agree with you without question...yet, I am excluded from that main stream society because by your statement I exhibit a flaw without awareness.

That is the typical form of passive alienation. Many psychological theories assert alienation is a form of passive violence. Between you and I, just by what has been written, you are the more likely hostile one--again, substantiated by what I have written before. Hostility is exhibited in people with antisocial tendencies.

[CreepedOut]

Why exactly do you think these women are following in your footsteps? Not the fact that they have done some of the same things as you but why they are copying you? Oh and not why you think they are copying you.

I have no clue. That is why I started this thread. I was hoping someone with more experience could relate to my experience, describe under what circumstances things like this occur, and how to prevent them in the future.

Does that answer your question? Do you have an answer?

[DannyH]

There has got to be a reason to why you think they are copying you. If they are doing some of the same things as you for no reason other then the fact they are doing them then they are not copying you. I have no clue is not an answer. Why would you want to prevent somebody from doing the same thing as you even though its in a different time or place? You answer mine questions then I will answer yours. you had a very well thought out posts but you were just missing a few key pieces.

[CreepedOut]

There has got to be a reason to why you think they are copying you. If they are doing some of the same things as you for no reason other then the fact they are doing them then they are not copying you. I have no clue is not an answer. Why would you want to prevent somebody from doing the same thing as you even though its in a different time or place?

Good Questions, Danny, I hope can call you by your first name. Very good questions though. Very thought provoking. The last line is particularly interesting.

If I understand your last line correctly: by even thinking (at worst caring) about the motives of people who I perceive are making decisions based on some decisions I made in the past, my reaction is to want to prevent them from making those decisions. Then the question comes back to me--rightfully so in this instance--why would I want these two to behave any other way or at worst why would I want to prevent them from behaving in the same way.

I have to reflect to be honest and objective.

In the case of my friend, I am concerned and maybe feel even a little bit guilty. We grew up together and I was always the helpful, reliable, non-judgmental and friendly kind of person. I did volunteer frequently and I did put my heart into my volunteering. I did talk a lot about wanting to make the world a better place. All these feelings are honest feelings I held and still hold. All these things gave me personal happiness.

However incidentally in the process not intended, these actions became my defining characteristics growing up. Without wanting it, I was very much loved by my peers. I mean who would not love someone who is giving, understanding, proactive, and caring with everyone regardless of race, religions, wealth, knowledge? Again, this was never my intent it is just how things evolved.

I feel guilty--which is probably not appropriate in this case--because I feel she took the wrong lessons from my behavior. My behavior was solely motivated by my desire to help others--it is a characteristic of my family, how I was raised--incidentally, I was popular and loved for it.

She wants to be loved and that is why she mimics the behavior. The problem though is as a child I was taught giving is its own reward and never to expect anything in return. Consequently when I help people or groups of people, I not only expect nothing in return I actually feel like I do not deserve anything in return. So, I go from one person to the next helping and then moving on. However, she wants to be loved back. Realistically, most people require more than a helping hand to show affection and love for another.

I do not look for love from those I help, because I have love in my family, my nephews, my friends. I don't believe she has that kind of love in her home, in fact I know she doesn't.

For my former co-worker...well, it may be similar only in a different regard. At my workplace I was known as the highly gifted and reliable worker. It was a more complicated environment, so I experienced both a sense of appreciation as well as a sense of jealousy. However once again, my work behavior is guided solely by my ethical standards of doing the best possible. Also, people recognized I had a real strong gift of not only doing the analytic work but more importantly I connected well with clients. I was always fun and outgoing with clients, but again not for approval but because I really enjoyed my job.

In the end I left the position to pursue my original desire to work towards helping others. It seems my co-worker also took the wrong lesson from my behavior. She wants to treated with a sense of appreciation and connection. The problem is once again, the intention is off so it does not work.

Does that make sense? Do you believe me? Am I rationalizing?

[DannyH]

This is the thing your focusing way to much about their actions and how they reflect to you. It could be what you say about them are true and that they are doing those things for the wrong reasons. People who hang out together or work together have some of the same interests. It's how people work. Since your first friend is actually your friend down the road you two may have ended up doing the same things because they both interest you and her. Not because she wants to be like you. Same thing with your co-worker. Your missing that point because of your views about yourself. I highly doubt they are copying you but are going to pursue what they are interested it.
I really do think you should talk to somebody though about how came to the idea that they were copying you. That is a sign of paranoia which is why I was asking the questions that I did. Psychology is a bit more broad then the actual definitions that they put on paper.

[CreepedOut]

This is the thing your focusing way to much about their actions and how they reflect to you. It could be what you say about them are true and that they are doing those things for the wrong reasons. People who hang out together or work together have some of the same interests. It's how people work. Since your first friend is actually your friend down the road you two may have ended up doing the same things because they both interest you and her. Not because she wants to be like you. Same thing with your co-worker. Your missing that point because of your views about yourself. I highly doubt they are copying you but are going to pursue what they are interested it.
I really do think you should talk to somebody though about how came to the idea that they were copying you. That is a sign of paranoia which is why I was asking the questions that I did. Psychology is a bit more broad then the actual definitions that they put on paper.

Well, thanks for the advice, Danny. I don't think it is as big an issue as it appears. Again, it was learning yesterday somebody who I (and others) really never felt comfortable around--much less working with--had been living so close to me for probably five years is what sparked the concern.

I think it is understandable to be a little bit concerned when someone who you think is well-beyond your past, was actually more present than you were aware. Again, if I had to name someone who I worked with who would be most capable of stalking, she would be it. And she was practically in my back yard. I think most people would be at least concerned.

However, I will follow your advice. If outside these two people I begin to become more suspicious of others, then yes therapy would be appropriate. However, at this point I think just writing it all out is enough for me.

Again, remember this all very recent and unexpected.